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Mark Smolens

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Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 3 in progress
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2022, 05:36:37 PM »

Was that a misprint on the original card or some interesting psychology.  Red are the Tiger tees and Black the all-the-way-up ones?


Kalen,


Red is the power color in Nebraska.





Eric,


Not much power in NE these days. Losing to my Mildcats in Dublin foretold the dismissal of their Coach. Thank goodness the not-so Big Red is around so that we're not the worst team in the B1G West

Gary Kurth

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 4 in progress
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2022, 11:19:07 PM »
Hole 4 is the head shaker.  Looks so short and innocent off the tee but wow, not an easy par.  I still think back to this hole more than any of the others.  The green is just so...out there.  I played it to the right side of the fairway both times and didn't try to approach from the left, more inline with the green.  Maybe the left is the better route.


Visually, from the right, it appears both of the bunkers are close to the green.  In reality, the left bunker is tucked against the green and the right bunker further from the green and hides the large collection area short/right of the green.  There is very little room for error to keep an approach shot on the green from the right side.  The landing area from the right is small.  Short is a roll back to the collection area.  If you hit the green past the hump but short of the pin, the hump will likely kick you long and off the green.
 
I'm not sure a pin could be placed on the hump that runs the length of the green on the bunker side.  That's over half the green that may not accommodate a pin placement.  Maybe if the hump was shaved down a foot. 


When you walk away and up the hill towards 5, you look back and wonder: How do I get to a back pin position?  Can I fly it?  What if I'm short and on the front, can I put around the boomerang?  #4 is a green that I'd like to spend some time trying different approaches and shots around the green to see what works.




Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 4 in progress
« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2022, 09:31:52 AM »

Tim Gavrich

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Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 4 in progress
« Reply #53 on: September 20, 2022, 09:41:36 AM »
It's probably not the case for a pin cut on the first 15 or so yards of green (which seems pretty dicey as a possible cupping area, anyway), but it seems you can bang an approach into the hill at the back edge all day and have the ball roll back onto the green, leaving a pretty reasonable birdie putt.


The intrigue of the hole lies in calculating and executing that shot, which is as much a mental as a physical task. The hole is teaching you to be confident in hitting a shot 15 or so yards longer than you think you need to, or else. I think that's a pretty interesting golf challenge. Both days I played it, I saw other golfers end up short because they just couldn't bring themselves to hit that approach hard enough. If you can clear that hurdle, I think it's not too hard a hole most days.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 4 in progress
« Reply #54 on: September 20, 2022, 05:34:46 PM »
Like the 2nd, there are numerous lines and options off the tee.  Very unique green!  Putts and chips must be struck carefully or a big number may come into play.

Jake Marvin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 4 in progress
« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2022, 07:15:06 PM »
Four has some of my favorite shaping on the course. Standing on the tee and the green, it looks like two different holes.


There's a lot of ways to get to the green, and if you're thoughtful you can pick the one which leaves the most comfortable approach. Personally, I like the right side where I can hit into the shallow part of the green with some backstop. Others may prefer to play it from ninety degrees over. Both make you sweat a little bit, especially once you know about the pit of despair. But hey, you have a wedge in hand, and few wedge shots actually make most players nervous. Fair game.
Surely the most geriatric 23-year-old on the planet.
What's next? Trinity Forest - Stevens Park - Texas Rangers

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 4 in progress
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2022, 08:26:04 PM »
I'm a bit late so bear with me as I catch up to the group!

Over 3 1/2 rounds, I played the Red tees at 7200 yards, the White tees at 6775 and the Green tees at 6440.  The biggest difference between tees for me was certainly the par 3's.  The fairways played firm and fast.


Hole #1 - Great starter with the 1st and 18th fairways playing like TOC!  If the first few shots are a gentle handshake, the green provides a bit of a kick in the crotch!

Hole #2 - Like many have said here's the first bit of uncomfortable in figuring out the line and distance off the tee.  The pitch of the green moving away from you makes the approach shot interesting!

Hole #3 - I can't provide any more commentary than has been said.  The dry creek bed from the left edge of the green down the center of the hole is very interesting.

Hole #4 - This is one of those rare holes where you finish playing it your first time and say, "man I wish I knew all this was here before."  Then on subsequent plays you say, "man, I wish I didn't know what's up here!"  The green will generate a lot of discussion and I think grumbling from the general public who won't "get it."  You're asked to hit a very precise shot, favoring a little long.  Pull it off, birdie or par.  Don't pull it off, bogey or much worse in a hurry!!

Looking forward to more discussion on a blast of a course!!

Ken

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 4 in progress
« Reply #57 on: September 22, 2022, 12:24:47 PM »
Anyone who has visited Landmand will understand that it took a little longer to move the discussion from hole 4 to hole 5, as opposed to making the transition with previous holes. I've seen numerous reviews praise the short green-to-tee transitions, and how they maintain some walkability on this HUGE golf course. While that's certainly true for many transitions, the course also has a few serious hikes. The journey from 4 green to 5 tee is the first of these.


As a sucker for long par 3s, though, I very much enjoy reaching the 5th tee. A broad-shouldered par 3 playing from high-point to high-point, it offers plenty of safe routes to a huge target, but dots the path with a few funky hazards and a green with the size and contour to really separate sloppy approaches from accurate ones. A lot can happen here. I watched funneling slopes steer balls to safety, while others fed balls away. And the variety of recoveries on offer stood out in the rounds I played.


Although it lacks the audacity of some of Landmand's more outside-the-box holes, I find it almost endlessly interesting. It might get the least attention of all the par 3s, but might also be the best hole of the bunch.
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 5 in progress
« Reply #58 on: September 22, 2022, 12:41:05 PM »

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 5 in progress
« Reply #59 on: September 22, 2022, 12:49:25 PM »
This may be the easiest of the par 3s.


Pretty straightforward hole with one of Landmand's best views.







Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 5 in progress
« Reply #60 on: September 22, 2022, 12:55:40 PM »
When I stood on this tee and saw the endless prairie spread out in front of me, I understood that the scale of the course had to be immense. It fits the landscape.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 5 in progress
« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2022, 02:28:55 PM »
Tommy, that's a good point. As big and expansive as Landmand is, and even as big as it looks from the clubhouse, the 5th tee gives the first really great reveal. You spend the first 4 holes sorta tucked in valleys and up against ridges, and then all of a sudden you reach 5 tee and you just see golf everywhere around you.


It's a little overwhelming when you're walking - hard to believe you have so much ground ahead to cover, physically.
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Jake Marvin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 5 in progress
« Reply #62 on: September 23, 2022, 09:03:59 AM »
I heard someone refer to the fifth green as one of the most boring on the course, and while that may be the case I strongly disagree with any derogatory connotation that entails. On a course that generally throws everything at you and the nuance of putting is generally "how much break" instead of "is there break," I found a lot of trouble reading the broad, sweeping slopes here - especially from a hundred feet away.


It's hard to look past the redan as the star par three, but this is a strong one-shotter that I could easily argue as the best on the course given how much more day-to-day flexibility there is in pin and tee locations.
Surely the most geriatric 23-year-old on the planet.
What's next? Trinity Forest - Stevens Park - Texas Rangers

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 5 in progress
« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2022, 12:56:17 PM »
Lovely.  I really like long par 3s with big greens.  The bunker placement makes it look a bit different than the typical long par 3.

Thanks for providing some pictures.  This is fun.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 5 in progress
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2022, 01:07:14 PM »
John,


That small centerline bunker in front of the green, reminded me of another par 3 5th hole on a different course in a neighboring state!   ;)

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 5 in progress
« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2022, 01:14:04 PM »
#5 looks justifiably huge from the tee, but what impressed me is approaching the green on your walk. Itís amazing how severe the slopes are at ground level. Massive hump in the middle of the green provides for some very interesting long putts. Also found this green very difficult to read even on shorter putts.


With such varying pin locations that could alter the yardage by 30-40 and the presence of wind (which atypically we really didnít see) this tee shot can be REALLY interesting.


Ken

Cal Carlisle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 5 in progress
« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2022, 08:56:30 PM »
Lots of uphill / sidehill lies. [Two Sandpros in the distance for scale]. Green has a sizeable backboard that does a pretty good job of containing low incoming approach shots.
.
DSC00723 by Calvin Carlisle, on Flickr

Brad Hill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 5 in progress
« Reply #67 on: September 24, 2022, 08:57:52 AM »

Man you guys move fast. A few impressions from the previous holes.

1- A very attractive tee shot with plenty of room for a stiff swing. Missing left leaves a blind approach/lay-up and aiming right requires solid contact. I think this hole has the most impressive bunkering on the course. Standing on the tee you can see the "milk carton" bunker short of 18 green. I didn't see anyone hit it there off the first tee but it will probably happen. The bunkering short left of the 1st green is also ruggedly shaped. Wildly contoured first green and false front.

2 - Loads of options off the tee.

3 - Favorite tee shot as it changed the most depending on the tee box and it was just darn pretty. The ditch was a unique hazard that provided a wide range of lies and I really liked that it carried all the way up alongside the green.

4 - Let the controversy begin. I'm still working out my thoughts on this one.

5 - Since the green is so large and the shot so long, this produces one of my favorite shots in golf, the prolonged flight, bounce and roll out. Unless you top it. This was when I first noticed the difficulty in figuring out the greens. The large slopes mixed with micro contours really made reading the greens tricky. I also think I saw the first blind putt from the other side of the knob in the middle of the green.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 5 in progress
« Reply #68 on: September 27, 2022, 09:59:49 AM »
As a final word on 5 - I echo everyone on the interest of the putting surface. It's not the craziest green at Landmand by any stretch, but it's among my favorites. Its size makes a GIR a little more realistic than usual for a ~200 yard par 3, but there's enough going on internally that any sort of misplayed shot faces a recovery as difficult as any pitch shot, even if that recovery is played with a putter.


Speaking of recoveries played with a putter - my putter sandy from the left bunker was a real highlight that I'd like to put on the record here.


We move from a huge target on one of Landmand's shortest holes, to a series of discerning targets on one of its longest. The 6th is a hell of a hole and the only moment when Landmand presents "tight" shots to fairly narrow landing areas. You can reach in two, but you need to take risk to do it. Not among my favorite holes on the course - I think it's mostly a transition hole on a tough section of property. But I also think it's essential to the "complete test" at Landmand - it challenges accuracy and positioning in a way that no other hole on the course really does. It's like cardamom - not my favorite spice, but absolutely essential in some recipes.
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 6 in progress
« Reply #69 on: September 27, 2022, 01:22:45 PM »
A few thoughts:
Fourth: It's a 300ish yard par 4, so you should expect to have a challenge on the approach. It's easier to hit and hold than the 10th at Riviera - that's for sure. Seems like playing left over the fairway bunker would make for the easiest approaches, but the carry from the green tees (230) makes it a less likely path for shorter hitters. The bank behind helps restrain shots that go a little long. Funky shaped green, but nothing controversial.

Fifth: I certainly have a better shot of a GIR on this than most 200 yard par 3s. I liked how the tees changed the angle of the tee shot along with the distance. The small bunker in front of the center of the green looks best avoided, but favoring one side or the other feels tough to do, even though there is a huge amount of room.

Sixth: A huge fairway but maybe the toughest tee shot yet. There's a huge swale on the left that needs to be carried (maybe 220 from the green tees) or else you have a long, blind second shot from a steep uphill lie. Lies are flatter to the right and not as much of a carry needed. The second shot plays narrow with a side sloping fairway and inconveniently placed bunkers. The green follows that slope making a safer miss to the left into a tough approach.

I don't really have time to post photos right now, but if anyone wants to look at a bunch of unlabeled photos, message me and I'll share a dropbox link. 
« Last Edit: September 27, 2022, 03:18:14 PM by John Mayhugh »

Jake Marvin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 6 in progress
« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2022, 04:01:45 PM »
I guess I need to go buy some cardamom. Maybe it's not as enormous as much of the course, but I appreciate a par five that doesn't allow me to turn my brain off for half of it. The rest of the par fives are good, but unless I missed something, the driving strategy is to bash it as far as possible. Here, there's a convincing argument to laying back, but that swale is a part of the equation.


One can use the slope to stop a long shot left, but the slope to the back right of the green should cause a fair bit of fear.


Maybe six is a bit of a downer because of its relative narrowness, but I have a suspicion that if the rest of the course were built to this scale this would be seen as a standout hole.
Surely the most geriatric 23-year-old on the planet.
What's next? Trinity Forest - Stevens Park - Texas Rangers

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 6 in progress
« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2022, 05:24:16 PM »
Jake, you make a good point - this is a hole that doesn't let you turn your brain off. I can probably count on my fingers the number of times I've hit less than driver on a par 5 that I thought was a halfway decent hole. 2 of them came at hole 6 on my first two plays at Landmand, and I'd have slapped 4 iron out there a third time if I wasn't pushing to keep up with you, George, and Joe in a skins game.


It offers 3 very interesting shots... or 2 supremely nerve-racking ones if you want to go that route. I don't LOVE any of those shots, but that's because they're tough ones! I don't love the options I have available! They're interesting shots though, and full of options and funky risks.


This stretch from 6-8 is a really interesting one from a routing standpoint, I think. It feels like the land where 6 and 15 sit is a bit of a bottleneck that had to be traversed to connect the stretch from 7-14 with the section of the property where the early and late holes sit. Seems like the routing pretty much had to go in the direction it goes when we leave 5 green. Maybe 6 would feel more manageable as a par 4, but what would that do to 7 and 8? As is, those are probably three of the most controversial holes on the course. But I'm not sure I see a routing option that would clearly improve this stretch - they're all holes that walk a very thin line for me, but I think I come out on the side of "I like it" with all three.


Which is sorta like cardamom, as a flavor.
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 6 in progress
« Reply #72 on: September 27, 2022, 08:55:11 PM »
All that's been said about 6 is spot on.  The prudent play from any of the tees is probably laying back with less than driver but, man, did this hole have my number.

The drive for me just feels awkward.  Not in a bad way.  It made me feel uncomfortable which I then proceeded to show with almost every tee shot!  There is not a shot until the green I'd call comfortable.  You have to fit your drive into the valley, negotiate around the massive bunkers then work your way to a green sloping away from you.

I did see the danger of bulkhead bunkers when my playing partner nearly took his own head off trying to get out to the green.

Is the uncomfortable nature of 6 (and also hole 7) due to they way the fairway tumbles in, out and over the valleys?  Neither hole plays directly down the valley which really messed with me.  I had a little of the same sensation on hole 3 but not nearly as pronounced in my mind's eye like 6 and 7.

Ken

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 6 in progress
« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2022, 04:11:58 PM »
Ok... does anyone have thoughts on 7?


Should this green be blown up, or hung in the Louvre?
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Landmand merits discussion - Hole 7 in progress
« Reply #74 on: September 29, 2022, 04:24:40 PM »
It's nearly impossible for me to offer the definitive analysis without seeing a picture.

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