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Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
OTórules question
« on: September 15, 2022, 06:05:10 PM »
This happened in just a friendly game.
I hit my tee ball on a par three into the side of a little incline behind the hole. The ball plugged. After I fixed the ball mark I placed the ball on top of the mark I had just fixed. Of course, the ball rolled. The incline was too steep for it to stay put. Not knowing what to do, I again fixed the ball mark. This time I left a little depression in the mark and placed my ball therein, where it stayed. I nudged the ball, which ended up a few feet from the hole.
What is the rule for such an adventure?
Tom Williamsen
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OTórules question
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2022, 06:32:53 PM »
This happened in just a friendly game.
I hit my tee ball on a par three into the side of a little incline behind the hole. The ball plugged. After I fixed the ball mark I placed the ball on top of the mark I had just fixed. Of course, the ball rolled. The incline was too steep for it to stay put. Not knowing what to do, I again fixed the ball mark. This time I left a little depression in the mark and placed my ball therein, where it stayed. I nudged the ball, which ended up a few feet from the hole.
What is the rule for such an adventure?
If the ball will not stay at rest when you replace it, see Rule 14.2e:
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=14&subrulenum=2

(Basically, replace on the nearest spot that meets some criteria.)

If you had repaired the ball mark more "poorly" before and the ball had stayedÖ you wouldn't have been tempted to bump it, I imagine.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

JohnVDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OTórules question
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2022, 08:10:06 PM »
Rule 13.1c(2) says this about repairing damage on the putting green:


ďA player may repair damage on the putting green without penalty by taking reasonable actions to restore the putting green as nearly as possible to its original conditionĒ


You did this. Then when the ball wouldnít stay they you deliberately took further actions to modify the surface to hold your ball there.  In doing so, you breached Rule 8.2 interpretation 8.2b/1 gives the following example of a breach:


ďReplacing or placing a ball when returning it to play by firmly pressing it into the surface of the ground to help prevent it from being moved by wind or gravity and plays the ball. Since the spot of a ball includes vertical distance, the ball is in a wrong place. As these related acts breach multiple Rules, the player only gets the general penalty. See Rule 1.3c(4) (Applying Penalties to Multiple Breaches).Ē Your action to further ďrepairĒ the pitch mark to recreate the depression is the same as pressing the ball into the ground.


So you were in breach of the Rules as above.


What you should have done per Rule 14.2e was try twice to replace the ball on the spot.  Then you need to find the nearest place, not nearer the hole, where it will stay at rest that is either on the putting green or in the general area. 


Note that the only time youíre going to move to a different area of the course under Rule 14.2e is when you are starting from the putting green. If, for example a ball in the general area wonít stay at rest you have to stay in the general area when doing this.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OTórules question
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2022, 10:50:15 PM »
Thanks. It all makes sense. By the way, I meant to say I nudged it with my putter. I made a stroke.
Tom Williamsen
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OTórules question
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2022, 12:54:11 AM »
This got me thinking about a situation in which you may want to leave your ball plugged on the green (and on a severe slope) and play it out of the lie itself instead of marking it then ultimately playing it from a much worse spot.  I'm assuming that you're allowed to play a ball out of a plugged lie on the green if you want.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OTórules question
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2022, 04:02:04 AM »
This got me thinking about a situation in which you may want to leave your ball plugged on the green (and on a severe slope) and play it out of the lie itself instead of marking it then ultimately playing it from a much worse spot.  I'm assuming that you're allowed to play a ball out of a plugged lie on the green if you want.
I don't know but I would think you COULDN'T play a ball plugged in a green because it might cause further damage to the green. Rules guys? Maybe that's just etiquette like repairing a ball mark. Don't know that not repairing a ball mark is any kind of penalty. ???
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OTórules question
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2022, 06:44:42 AM »
This got me thinking about a situation in which you may want to leave your ball plugged on the green (and on a severe slope) and play it out of the lie itself instead of marking it then ultimately playing it from a much worse spot.  I'm assuming that you're allowed to play a ball out of a plugged lie on the green if you want.
I don't know but I would think you COULDN'T play a ball plugged in a green because it might cause further damage to the green. Rules guys? Maybe that's just etiquette like repairing a ball mark. Don't know that not repairing a ball mark is any kind of penalty. ???
You can play it as it lies. I'm picturing a small depression, not a ball that's half embedded with the player taking a divot. I'm still picturing a player putting.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OTórules question
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2022, 08:08:27 AM »
 8)


Eric thanks for your help as you truly are a rules "maven"  I would think you can always play a ball "where it lays" and fix any damage after the stroke.

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