News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Best 'constructed' links
« on: September 06, 2022, 12:52:22 PM »
What are the most authentically links-like courses that have been completely shaped (ie not on untouched sand dunes)? For avoidance of confusion I'm more interested in aesthetic considerations rather than playability in this context. Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart obviously. What else?
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2022, 02:28:52 PM »
Chambers Bay comes immediately to mind. Haven’t played there since the greens were converted to Poa, but I can’t see that as a detriment.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2022, 02:31:39 PM »
I suppose Dumbarnie fits your criteria.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2022, 02:39:14 PM »
1. Whistling Straits


2. Pac Dunes


3. Old Mac


4. Macrahanish Dunes


5. European Club...?...maybe, but not a true links


6. Trump-hole Aberdeen...pains me...;-)



Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2022, 02:58:40 PM »
1. Whistling Straits


2. Pac Dunes


3. Old Mac


4. Macrahanish Dunes


5. European Club...?...maybe, but not a true links


6. Trump-hole Aberdeen...pains me...;-)

Machrihanish Dunes, absolutely not -- it is as pure a natural links as you will find. Similarly the European Club (leaving aside how it plays) was built on a glorious piece of natural sand dunes.

I have never seen a links that looked anything like Whistling Straits.

The other one that springs to my mind is Budersand in Germany.

I like Chambers Bay very much, and it certainly played like a links when I was there. But I don't think anyone would mistake it for a British or Irish course, aesthetically speaking.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2022, 03:01:29 PM by Adam Lawrence »
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Michael Felton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2022, 04:25:01 PM »
I don't know that it quite fits the bill as a links-like course, but Bayonne has that vibe to me playing it. It's not particularly close to Kingsbarns in that respect and I haven't played Castle Stuart, but it's an example and a little bit different at the same time.

David Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2022, 05:18:23 PM »
Yas Links? i slightly hesitate as it clearly doesn't run as well as a Kingsbarns or CS. But the end result is quite something.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2022, 05:44:30 PM »
Don't like the course but Spanish Bay in Pebble Beach was constructed I believe on links land but a whole lot of sand was moved and ice plant added.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2022, 08:19:15 PM »
I don't know that it quite fits the bill as a links-like course, but Bayonne has that vibe to me playing it. It's not particularly close to Kingsbarns in that respect and I haven't played Castle Stuart, but it's an example and a little bit different at the same time.


In terms of construction, Bayonne might stand alone. I can't think of another course, including The Straits, that had more earth brought in.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2022, 08:50:05 PM »
2. Pac Dunes


Never been, but this wasn't built on something approximating links ground?

Quinn Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2022, 09:51:19 PM »
Cabot Links ? From what I believe it was an abandoned coal mining site, with heavy soils ( which were sand capped ), I thought the end results were very good. The architecture is engaging, the routing was adventurous, and the aesthetics are simple and lay-of-the-land and not overdone...very Canadian, nothing flashy - just good, clean golf.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2022, 10:17:02 PM »
Cabot Links ? From what I believe it was an abandoned coal mining site, with heavy soils ( which were sand capped ), I thought the end results were very good. The architecture is engaging, the routing was adventurous, and the aesthetics are simple and lay-of-the-land and not overdone...very Canadian, nothing flashy - just good, clean golf.


Seconded.


Another possibility is Yangtze Dunes.  I’ve heard really good things about it, but who wants to go to China to report on it?  I did see Tiger Beach there, s very low key effort at a links (which are themselves quite low key).


P.S. Of my own work, The Legends (Heathland)  ???  was not a bad attempt, and depending on your viewpoint you could say the same about The Renaissance Club, or even Tara Iti.  All three were commercial forests when we started, though two had very nice views of the water  :)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2022, 10:21:35 PM by Tom_Doak »

Jimmy Chandler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2022, 10:21:05 PM »

2. Pac Dunes


3. Old Mac

How do these fit the criteria of "constructed" links?

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2022, 03:06:44 AM »
"In terms of construction, Bayonne might stand alone. I can't think of another course, including The Straits, that had more earth brought in."

Didn't the Ardfin course also have a huge amount of sand & soil shipped to the island for the construction of the course?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2022, 03:11:45 AM by David_Tepper »

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2022, 04:31:14 AM »
"In terms of construction, Bayonne might stand alone. I can't think of another course, including The Straits, that had more earth brought in."

Didn't the Ardfin course also have a huge amount of sand & soil shipped to the island for the construction of the course?

Sand only for the construction of greens. They had originally planned to cap fairways but when they realised how much it would cost to ship all that sand to the little pier at Craighouse and then truck it four miles along the single track road to site, they abandoned the idea and resorted to scavenging for topsoil across the rest of the estate.

I wouldn’t call Ardfin a links in any sense. It is a cliff top course
« Last Edit: September 07, 2022, 06:41:38 AM by Adam Lawrence »
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2022, 06:25:38 AM »
Bayonne by far, in my book. It remains Golf's greatest pottery experiment and a prime example of a shrewd golf developer actually being paid to dredge the adjacent harbor and use the material to shape a links course.


If sand-capping a waste area besides a body of water qualifies, then Ferry Point deserves a healthy mention. Nicklaus' team did a fine job with a flat site and to everyone's credit, it plays far more like a links course than say a Whistling Straits, or its cousin, The Irish Course. The latter Dye pair are effectively aerial course.


Lastly, although it doesn't play nearly firm enough to be considered a true links, I'd add Kiawah Ocean to the list as it was surely constructed along those lines. Come to think of it, I can't name any Pete Dye course that really plays anywhere close to a links.
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2022, 07:12:08 AM »
I'm not sure how high up it would rank on any "Best" list but Dundonald was certainly constructed.


I'd also suggest that many of the traditional old links have been constructed even if that construction happened over a period of time.


Niall

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2022, 09:50:55 AM »
Shoutout to Grand Cypress "New" (now called the Links Course) here - it's a little kitschy but the first time I played it, it was May and it was dry and the ball was actually bouncing a bit. It was fun. Not "authentic" but a cute facsimile in its own way.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2022, 11:04:27 AM »
Cabot Links ? From what I believe it was an abandoned coal mining site, with heavy soils ( which were sand capped ), I thought the end results were very good. The architecture is engaging, the routing was adventurous, and the aesthetics are simple and lay-of-the-land and not overdone...very Canadian, nothing flashy - just good, clean golf.


Seconded.


Another possibility is Yangtze Dunes.  I’ve heard really good things about it, but who wants to go to China to report on it?  I did see Tiger Beach there, s very low key effort at a links (which are themselves quite low key).


P.S. Of my own work, The Legends (Heathland)  ???  was not a bad attempt, and depending on your viewpoint you could say the same about The Renaissance Club, or even Tara Iti.  All three were commercial forests when we started, though two had very nice views of the water  :)


I have been to Yangtze Dunes and thought it was very good -- it was an engineering marvel from what i was told, huge amounts of sand were dredged and brought in for the original design.




Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2022, 12:05:02 PM »
My experience of manufactured links courses is very limited but I did rather enjoy the Castle Course!


😉

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2022, 12:50:03 PM »
Would the Lido, the pre-WW2 version count? Maybe some other sand dredge and fill courses too?
Atb

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2022, 01:15:38 PM »

2. Pac Dunes


3. Old Mac

How do these fit the criteria of "constructed" links?


i dont know...i am (i guess) confused by the question and how it was posed.


shit, I will amend my responses to avoid the scorn...;-)


So, How about:


1. Chicago Golf Club - plays like a links course in the suburbs of Chicago and 30+ miles from water


2. Streamsong - all those courses play like links courses in the middle of FL




Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2022, 03:34:22 PM »
Would the Lido, the pre-WW2 version count? Maybe some other sand dredge and fill courses too?
Atb


The new one should count, too, although I am not sure we've really tried for a "links" aesthetic, it will certainly play like one if they keep it as firm as it is now!

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2022, 04:35:53 PM »
I did wonder about the ‘new’ Lido but wasn’t brave enough to mention it!!


I’ve seen photos of a course called Winston Links in Germany where huge amounts of sand would seem to have been moved.


Was quite a bit of sand moved when the Glashedy course at Ballyliffin was built?


Might be a few courses in the Middle East that could be included especially those along the seashore (Yas, Adjman etc)?


Atb

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 'constructed' links
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2022, 07:35:16 PM »
Cabot Links has been mentioned twice already. But I think it really bares mentioning at how stunning a "faux links" it is. So much so that it seems downright wrong to call it a "faux links" because unless someone told you it was manufactured you would never believe it was. I think it is perhaps one of the bravest modern courses built. I don't think anyone else would have had the restraint to make the course as un-flashy as it is. I think that restraint is what helps the golfer believe that it is entirely natural.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back