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V_Halyard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is 'The Loop' Tom Doak's masterpiece?
« Reply #75 on: September 09, 2022, 10:25:26 AM »
I have regrets that I was unable to catch up with you on this leg but am in full agreement. Having had the opportunity to play it back to back on one of the rare days where they flipped the pins over lunch.  It was quite an experiential 36 Holes where you spend at least a 1/3 of the time trying to re-create in you mind, the path of the shot you took that morning from the other direction.
It must be played both ways hopefully on consecutive days.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2022, 02:13:05 PM by V_Halyard »
"It's a tiny little ball that doesn't even move... how hard could it be?"  I will walk and carry 'til I can't... or look (really) stupid.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is 'The Loop' Tom Doak's masterpiece?
« Reply #76 on: September 14, 2022, 02:24:21 AM »
Last Summer I got around both the Black and the Red twice.  My second round on the black, as a single with the last tee time of the day, afforded me time to spend chipping and studying each green complex.  Black 6/Red 12 Green is unlike anything I’ve seen.  I also have a soft spot for Black 11/Red 7 Green.  (I would imagine that Black 17/Red 2 receives the most ink/opinions.)
The presentation of the course is what initially surprised me the most.  I catch myself daydreaming that my local courses were blessed with such fast and firm characteristics. 
However, the actions of my playing partners were the most surprising.  With no usual framing of tee boxes and secondary rough boundaries of the fairways the cart traffic left a negative impression on me.  I realize this has nothing to do with Doak’s design, but it was an odd sight to see carts parked next to (and on) greens; often I would notice carts parked directly on the green approach for tomorrow’s routing.  Aesthetically this was not pleasing. 
The only other nitpicking I would offer is that the green to tee walks/transition were burdensome.  I believe this is the case because when after holing out, the next corridor/fairway begins immediately; its right there in front of you (because this is the approach for the next days routing).  I had a desire to peg the tee right there next to the hole (like the original rules of golf) and thus begin playing, but those walks to the little tee marker often left me thinking the routing could be more ‘compressed.’  (I had initially thought that the tees would be 90 degrees from the previous green, but it seemed the slight majority were 60 yards down the fairway, albeit slightly skewed to one edge of the fairway)
Overall, it’s a unique design with no other peers (Silvies Golf in Oregon seems to be a different concept); and therefore, I have a difficult time labeling it a masterpiece.  Its hard to label a one of one as a masterpiece.  (I do think green complexes are exceptional)

I too am a fan of tees close to greens. However, some element of safety should be considered. The day we played the Red a golfer behind us was hit in the head while standing on a par 3 back tee. His mate thought many of the back tee locations were dangerous. If you play in Scotland etc you learn to pay attention even when on tees or stand away from tees while waiting. But the point is valid.

While on the subject of the tees, it may seem a mundane issue, but their design is pure beauty. They are often shaped as not wholly completed, but it's obvious when on them that they are tees. When not using those tees they blend into the background or are hidden. Remarkable.

I am stunned the Conf Guide goes with 7 for The Loop. It's the essence of a must see course. My joining this trip hinged on two days at The Loop as it was on my bucket list. I wouldn't have gone otherwise. There should almost be three ratings, Red, Black and The Loop.

Ciao
« Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 01:45:25 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, Malone, Cruit Island & St Pats

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +0/-1
Re: Is 'The Loop' Tom Doak's masterpiece?
« Reply #77 on: September 14, 2022, 01:31:11 PM »

I am stunned the Conf Guide goes with 7 for The Loop. It's the essence of a must see course. My joking this trip hinged on two days at The Loop as it was on my bucket list. I wouldn't have gone otherwise. There should almost be three ratings, Red, Black and The Loop.



I get a lot of crap when rating my own courses so I tend to rate them no higher than a friend would rate them.  But I do think it's worth a long trip to see.  Glad to hear someone else say it.  A shame it didn't get used for the Midwest Mashie before that went commercial.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is 'The Loop' Tom Doak's masterpiece?
« Reply #78 on: September 14, 2022, 01:50:55 PM »

I am stunned the Conf Guide goes with 7 for The Loop. It's the essence of a must see course. My joking this trip hinged on two days at The Loop as it was on my bucket list. I wouldn't have gone otherwise. There should almost be three ratings, Red, Black and The Loop.



I get a lot of crap when rating my own courses so I tend to rate them no higher than a friend would rate them.  But I do think it's worth a long trip to see.  Glad to hear someone else say it.  A shame it didn't get used for the Midwest Mashie before that went commercial.

There can be no question The Loop is worth a bit of effort to see. I say three ratings because The Loop is clearly a case of the sum being better than its parts. If the Red and Black are 7s The Loop is a 10. You and your team should be proud of this achievement.

I have heard of a reversible 9 hole course in Netherland. Though I don't recall its name, it too will be on my bucket list.

Ciao
« Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 02:56:18 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, Malone, Cruit Island & St Pats

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is 'The Loop' Tom Doak's masterpiece?
« Reply #79 on: September 14, 2022, 01:55:06 PM »

I am stunned the Conf Guide goes with 7 for The Loop. It's the essence of a must see course. My joking this trip hinged on two days at The Loop as it was on my bucket list. I wouldn't have gone otherwise. There should almost be three ratings, Red, Black and The Loop.





I get a lot of crap when rating my own courses so I tend to rate them no higher than a friend would rate them.  But I do think it's worth a long trip to see.  Glad to hear someone else say it.  A shame it didn't get used for the Midwest Mashie before that went commercial.

I have heard of a reversals 9 hole course in Netherland. Though I don't recall its name, it too will be on my bucket list.


https://www.thelinksvalley.nl/

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is 'The Loop' Tom Doak's masterpiece?
« Reply #80 on: September 14, 2022, 04:39:23 PM »

I am stunned the Conf Guide goes with 7 for The Loop. It's the essence of a must see course. My joking this trip hinged on two days at The Loop as it was on my bucket list. I wouldn't have gone otherwise. There should almost be three ratings, Red, Black and The Loop.



I get a lot of crap when rating my own courses so I tend to rate them no higher than a friend would rate them.  But I do think it's worth a long trip to see.  Glad to hear someone else say it.  A shame it didn't get used for the Midwest Mashie before that went commercial.


The Mashie was scheduled there prior to Covid IIRC
« Last Edit: September 16, 2022, 08:57:16 AM by Buck Wolter »
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

V_Halyard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is 'The Loop' Tom Doak's masterpiece?
« Reply #81 on: September 15, 2022, 06:32:21 PM »

I am stunned the Conf Guide goes with 7 for The Loop. It's the essence of a must see course. My joking this trip hinged on two days at The Loop as it was on my bucket list. I wouldn't have gone otherwise. There should almost be three ratings, Red, Black and The Loop.


I get a lot of crap when rating my own courses so I tend to rate them no higher than a friend would rate them.  But I do think it's worth a long trip to see.  Glad to hear someone else say it.  A shame it didn't get used for the Midwest Mashie before that went commercial.
HA As were headed to the Loop in 2020... then COVID hit. And after the boom year they had during COVID, when we called to inquire about 2022, their response to our request for a weekend in the fall of 2022 after a sold out 2021 was understandably... tepid and "reflective".  LOL

But we gladly accept Tom's offer to host us at the Loop for the 2023 Mashie!  Tom, we look forward to your confirmation!
"It's a tiny little ball that doesn't even move... how hard could it be?"  I will walk and carry 'til I can't... or look (really) stupid.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Is 'The Loop' Tom Doak's masterpiece?
« Reply #82 on: September 15, 2022, 07:03:11 PM »
I mean, in fairness, the Mashie went corporate in 2021 when we started doing shit like playing on greens stimping 14 and driving Dodge Rams on alternative entrance roads.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

V_Halyard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is 'The Loop' Tom Doak's masterpiece?
« Reply #83 on: September 15, 2022, 10:03:14 PM »
I mean, in fairness, the Mashie went corporate in 2021 when we started doing shit like playing on greens stimping 14 and driving Dodge Rams on alternative entrance roads.

Lol. Commercial? Tom D’s inference the Mashie has gone “commercial” is a Doak 2. We are a guerrilla operation. 

We hustle and scramble for Mashie sites in a market where clubs have waitlists and public tracks have sold out tee times. All to find architecturally interesting places for our golf achie geek pals to play in between NGLA and Cypress Point.

Shit, we cold call folks we know and don’t know. Let’s be clear, we hunt for opportunities and if we find them, we try to secure a Mashie Site. We took a risk and asked Will for a Landmand Mashie before they even knew how  the grass was going to grow-in at Landmand.

We had the Loop and a couple months out, the Loop rightfully got cold feet about us overnighting during COVID, George literally picked up the phone and reserved a 36 hole single day of emergency tee times at Lawsonia and the week before we were to arrive, Craig Haltom helped us get them back after the computer deleted them sometime after they were made. 

We grind, work with courses and folks we know, pitch folks we don’t, all in an attempt to find interesting sites between the coasts for the Mashie. Commercial nor profitable we are not. No sponsors. Just grinders.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2022, 08:52:10 AM by V_Halyard »
"It's a tiny little ball that doesn't even move... how hard could it be?"  I will walk and carry 'til I can't... or look (really) stupid.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is 'The Loop' Tom Doak's masterpiece?
« Reply #84 on: September 25, 2022, 08:14:33 PM »
All right, Vaughn. Your thread-jump is justifiable and worded well. Hustle and grind is the way of the winning world.

Back to the original thread. I don't know if anyone has taken umbrage with the suggestion that any talent is restricted to one masterpiece. That's not how it works.

Pacific Dunes is a masterpiece.

The Loop is a masterpiece. I've seen and played both/all three.

From all accounts, St. Patrick's is a masterpiece. I've not seen it.

I anticipate the Lido will be a masterpiece. I walked it during construction, shot photos, and marvelled at its scale and bravado.

I hope that other masterworks await us, before Tom segues into a new career in the breeding of roses.


Maybe for 2022
~Eden Valley
~Hillview
~Pinehurst (NY)
~Kis 'N Greens
~Pine Meadows
~18 Mile Creek
~Greenwood
~Shawnee
~Leroy
~

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is 'The Loop' Tom Doak's masterpiece?
« Reply #85 on: Yesterday at 05:14:57 AM »
Ronald,


St. Patrick’s is indeed a masterpiece. Like The Loop, there is nothing else to compare it to: No true links course - at least in GB&I - has ever before been built on 300 acres of prime dune land (maybe Sandwich is the closest comparison). The scale is huge and very modern in that sense. What makes it stand out is the absolute mastery and confidence in the design decisions and the detail in marrying the build to a sensitive landscape where anything “artificial” can usually be spotted by the trained eye.


The Loop’s mastery is less about marrying the build to a sensitive landscape, more about how the concept has been made to work so beautifully and seamlessly.

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