[James Reader]

“Climate activists fill golf holes with cement after water ban exemption”


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62532840


With the present and increasing likelihood of water shortages, for how long will the public put up with seeing green greens when there isn’t enough water available for domestic and agricultural needs?  Can or should golf continue to make the case for such exemptions or does it need to accept that there will come a point (already reached in some places) where they can no longer by justified?

[Jaeger Kovich]

These French courses are allowed to water 30% of their capacity at night only, not exactly swimming in it.

We had a similar ban during the construction and grow in at Les Bordes.. it was brutal but we made it work… there was no ban at the car wash down the st though.

French politics are very strange… so is the feeling like you need to deface someone else’s property.

[Steve Lang]

   I see Agriculture accounts for 59% of freshwater use in the EU...  I'm not discounting the impacts of drought being experienced this year, but some allowance for golf certainly can be part of the big picture, as likely can a transition to some "artificial turf" tees and greens?? 

[Pete_Pittock]

  I see Agriculture accounts for 59% of freshwater use in the EU...  I'm not discounting the impacts of drought being experienced this year, but some allowance for golf certainly can be part of the big picture, as likely can a transition to some "artificial turf" tees and greens??

I am in a dilemma prioritizing water for golf courses and water for vineyards.

[Steve Lang]

   Pete, you're seeing both in the same basket? 

[cary lichtenstein]

I must be a dumb-ass. Isn't 4/5th of our planet covered in water from the oceans. Maybe, just maybe, we should devote some of the "green energy" money to learning how to convert seawater to drinking water economically. While they're at it, how about building a few nuclear power plants so we can run a/c while the planet heats up.


Let's see, water and a/c vs. grass for golf courses, ooops, bye bye golf.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

60 Minutes on Water in the SW USA:


https://www.cbsnews.com/video/colorado-river-water-level-60-minutes-video-2022-08-14/#x

[David_Tepper]

Better link here:

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/colorado-river-water-level-60-minutes-video-2022-08-14/#x

[Kalen Braley]

Better link here:

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/colorado-river-water-level-60-minutes-video-2022-08-14/#x

Interesting segment on how Southern Utah wants to build a pipeline to pull even more water out of the already overtaxed CR, but not surprised given prevailing belief/mindset in this state.

And Northern utah is no better off.  Resevoirs are very low and the Great Salt Lake is at it lowest level ever recorded, so now the real fun starts.. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/07/climate/salt-lake-city-climate-disaster.html

[Thomas Dai]

Not really surprised at all.

Some might disagree but is golf really more important than water for drinking, cleaning ourselves, growing and processing food crops, domestic animal production etc etc etc?
Plus lots of people don’t like golf for various social and political reasons and are only too pleased to be given an opportunity to kick golf where it hurts.
100 years ago the Worlds population was circa 2 billion people. It’s now nearly 8 billion and they all need access to water and land and if they don’t get it they are likely to be severely pissed-off to say the least. And when folks are severely pissed-off …….

Per Mike Cirba’s quote from his 2019 interview herein ….
“A game dependent on so much of the earth’s acreage on a shrinking planet with finite resources is inevitably going to be on the wrong side of history..”

Atb

[Cliff Hamm]

In southern New England we have had 1/2 inch of rain since July 1. We have gone from a severe drought to an extreme drought. There are numerous water restrictions in affect.


It seems to me that golf courses should only be allowed to water enough to keep the grass from completely dying and not coming back when it does finally rain..

[Jeff Taylor]

Deleted post.

[Steve Lang]

   Yet, there are examples of environmental activists continuing to reject real solutions to problems... 


https://abcnews.go.com/US/california-panel-unanimously-rejects-proposal-plant-turn-ocean/story?id=84671584


the shape of things presently seems to be no compromises, let alone Win-Win solutions...

[jeffwarne]

The standard and expectations of "conditioning" have gone up sooo far in my lifetime, yet in many cases the golf is hardly better, and often worse.(unless you enjoy playing redesigned flatter or "tiered" greens and/or watching the chipping yips-something I had never heard of 20 years ago)


Green and fairway speeds at double(even more in the case of approaches) what they once were have costs-both in $$ and environmental demands.


Until demands and expectations from golfers decrease, there will always be a push pull with golf, costs and the environment.


Grass maintained at a higher height of cut level requires less inputs, can be kept firmer(more fun) and is far MORE playable for a vast majority(if not all) golfers.
BUT the tyranny of the minority continues to dominate by insecurity fueled demands from those seemingly in power, or wanting to be in power. (the course down the street has faster greens), and there is no shortage of young over-resume 'ed  stars ready to provide the latest and greatest in higher budgets, inputs and speeds to satisfy the egos and insecurities of those passing on the bills to others.


Imagine playing any other sport where so much conversation was on the CONDITION of the field of play, rather than the actual play.
Too much Johnson measuring, not enough acceptance.
That's on us, and unless we adjust, we will be adjusted, and perhaps not in a way of our choosing

[Ally Mcintosh]

The standard and expectations of "conditioning" have gone up sooo far in my lifetime, yet in many cases the golf is hardly better, and often worse.(unless you enjoy watching the chipping yips-something I had never heard of 20 years ago)


Green and fairway speeds at double(even more in the case of approaches) what they once were have costs-both in $$ and environmental demands.


Until demands and expectations from golfers decrease, there will always be a push pull with golf, costs and the environment.


Grass maintained at a higher height of cut level requires less inputs, can be kept firmer(more fun) and is far MORE playable for a vast majority(if not all) golfers.
BUT the tyranny of the minority continues to dominate by insecurity fueled demands from those seemingly in power, or wanting to be in power. (the course down the street has faster greens), and there is no shortage of young over-resume 'ed  stars ready to provide the latest and greatest in higher budgets, inputs and speeds to satisfy the egos and insecurities of those passing on the bills to others.


Imagine playing any other sport where so much conversation was on the CONDITION of the field of play, rather than the actual play.
Too much Johnson measuring, not enough acceptance.
That's on us, and unless we adjust, we will be adjusted, and perhaps not in a way of our choosing

I agree with all you say.


However, with respect to your last paragraph, we might talk about it more with golf but the conditioning of the fields of play with EVERY sport has improved beyond recognition in the last 40 years.


Football (soccer) was played on mud-baths in the 70’s. These days they relay the pristine turf before every big match. Completely different game.


Ally

[jeffwarne]

The standard and expectations of "conditioning" have gone up sooo far in my lifetime, yet in many cases the golf is hardly better, and often worse.(unless you enjoy watching the chipping yips-something I had never heard of 20 years ago)


Green and fairway speeds at double(even more in the case of approaches) what they once were have costs-both in $$ and environmental demands.


Until demands and expectations from golfers decrease, there will always be a push pull with golf, costs and the environment.


Grass maintained at a higher height of cut level requires less inputs, can be kept firmer(more fun) and is far MORE playable for a vast majority(if not all) golfers.
BUT the tyranny of the minority continues to dominate by insecurity fueled demands from those seemingly in power, or wanting to be in power. (the course down the street has faster greens), and there is no shortage of young over-resume 'ed  stars ready to provide the latest and greatest in higher budgets, inputs and speeds to satisfy the egos and insecurities of those passing on the bills to others.


Imagine playing any other sport where so much conversation was on the CONDITION of the field of play, rather than the actual play.
Too much Johnson measuring, not enough acceptance.
That's on us, and unless we adjust, we will be adjusted, and perhaps not in a way of our choosing

I agree with all you say.


However, with respect to your last paragraph, we might talk about it more with golf but the conditioning of the fields of play with EVERY sport has improved beyond recognition in the last 40 years.


Football (soccer) was played on mud-baths in the 70’s. These days they relay the pristine turf before every big match. Completely different game.


Ally

True at the highest levels, but in all my years of youth coaching other sports and dealing with impossible parents, we never once chose a venue due to one field being pristine and never once heard a kid or parent talk about it.
Jr. Golfers it's the first thing out of their mouth

[Thomas Dai]

Well said Jeff.

As an example from another sport/pastime, the outfields at cricket ovals, even at the most elite grounds, didn't used to be watered. Now they're green and immaculate all the time. What a waste of water and an excuse for those outside the game to give it a good kicking, just like golf-haters do.

Golf's essentially also, or should be, a seasonal game. In many places folks don't play in the winter coz it's damn cold or there's snow or frozen ground. Why do golfers have to play for periods in the summer when the grass needs copious amounts of water to keep it green and looking good? There's no divine right to be able to play 365 days p/a. Time off isn't necessarily bad.

Expectations overall need reining-in. And less watering and a smaller playing area wouldn't be bad places to state.

atb

[jeffwarne]

Golf's essentially also, or should be, a seasonal game.

Expectations overall need reining-in. And less watering and a smaller playing area wouldn't be bad places to state.

atb

This-yet the golf world  goes the other direction daily.

[John Kavanaugh]

How many people in the USA alone are capable of being a greens superintendent capable of providing industry expectations? Could a deep pocketed evil organization pay each of them $1,000,000 to agree to never work in golf again?  Could gross incompetence lead us to the promised land? At what cost?

[jeffwarne]

How many people in the USA alone are capable of being a greens superintendent capable of providing industry expectations? Could a deep pocketed evil organization pay each of them $1,000,000 to agree to never work in golf again?  Could gross incompetence lead us to the promised land? At what cost?

I'd bet a large portion of superintendents and assistants would prefer to use their talents, skills and experience doing something at 4 pm on a Sunday besides babysitting fragile cool season turf on yet another high heat/humidity day in the northeast. All so the golf chairman can chunk yet another pitch that he should've putted.

[John Kavanaugh]

Volunteers are not the issue.

[Cade Cutchen]

Meadow Club underwent severe water restrictions last summer. They were only able to water tees, greens and green surrounds for the entirety of the summer.  The result was an incredibly fast and firm surface, with a completely unique look. However, I imagine it is a look that would be jarring to most golfers. I am not sure if they are under the same restrictions this year, but I have no doubt more of these type restrictions are coming, and people need to get comfortable with it. Hats off to the Agronomy team there for still presenting a great golf course despite the challenge.

I think there is something to be said for the seasonality of conditions, especially in a place like San Francisco, where you have two distinct weather patterns. In the summer, a dry, firm and fast golf course should be expected. Pins can be limited to flatter areas of the greens, and tees can be moved back to accommodate rollout. In the winter, when the course is wet from rains, move tees up and place pins in the wilder positions. In my experience, superintendents (maybe at the behest of the Greens Committee) try to fight nature too much, by trying to keep the course green in the summer, and greens quick in the wet winters. Instead, we should be using the weather to present different looks on the same course.

[John Kavanaugh]

Why did GHIN choose to use our 8 best scores when they could have just as easily used 12. It’s the industry.

[Sean_A]

Meadow Club underwent severe water restrictions last summer. They were only able to water tees, greens and green surrounds for the entirety of the summer.  The result was an incredibly fast and firm surface, with a completely unique look. However, I imagine it is a look that would be jarring to most golfers. I am not sure if they are under the same restrictions this year, but I have no doubt more of these type restrictions are coming, and people need to get comfortable with it. Hats off to the Agronomy team there for still presenting a great golf course despite the challenge.

I think there is something to be said for the seasonality of conditions, especially in a place like San Francisco, where you have two distinct weather patterns. In the summer, a dry, firm and fast golf course should be expected. Pins can be limited to flatter areas of the greens, and tees can be moved back to accommodate rollout. In the winter, when the course is wet from rains, move tees up and place pins in the wilder positions. In my experience, superintendents (maybe at the behest of the Greens Committee) try to fight nature too much, by trying to keep the course green in the summer, and greens quick in the wet winters. Instead, we should be using the weather to present different looks on the same course.

I agree with the proviso that firm as reasonably possible should be the goal.  One issue is carry shots both in terms of less distance and closed off greens. A non sandy area which can expect a decent amount of rain can be on the shorter side and have more heavily protected greens. But how will the course play in unusually dry conditions?  Its a challenge to find that balance.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Population of the World in 1900, ie when golf popularity started to takeoff - 1.6 billion
Population of the World in 2022 - 8 billion
Number of golfers in the World in 2022 - 60m
Guess golfs footprint and expectations better get smaller and/or smarter or else there’s likely a backlash looming as 99.99% of the Worlds current population aren’t golfers. Or else a lot more folks need to be persuaded to play golf although then again where given current expectations will the water and land come from for them to have courses to play on?
Atb

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