[Jerry Kluger]

I played a new course this weekend which is within a new housing development.  Most of the holes on the front nine had houses being built and they really hurt the appearance of the holes.  So much so that the few holes without houses just looked many times better.  Then played the back nine which had no houses and felt that it flowed so well through the mature trees and ponds.  I was trying to be as objective as I could be in comparing the two nines and all I could think about was how the back nine was going to look after so many trees are removed and houses built.


Are there courses where houses have minimal affect on the golf course or perhaps even enhance the course?

[Mark Fedeli]

I don't like houses on a golf course, but when I played Wilshire and Riviera, for example, it was awfully fun looking at some of those amazing homes and learning who they belonged to. Even the least tasteful ones were pretty fascinating.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I can't think of any course I played that enhanced the course. When the course only has homes on the perimeter, it's not dreadful. Riviera's homes don't really front the course because they are up high.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I don't like houses on a golf course, but when I played Wilshire and Riviera, for example, it was awfully fun looking at some of those amazing homes and learning who they belonged to. Even the least tasteful ones were pretty fascinating.

Same with Pebble Beach. When I have played there I have enjoyed checking those out.

Merion has pretty cool homes on the course, or right across the street, especially the ones on Golf House Road.

[Mike Hendren]

The houses at Desert Mountain fit in the landscape better than the golf courses.

[Joe Zucker]

Why does the town of St. Andrews enhance that course?  I think almost everyone agrees that it makes 17 and 18 more memorable and better.  The shops and hotel are certainly a lot more charming than a suburban McMansion, but is there anything else to it?  I wonder if it's just that it's public and busy vs silent and private.


Thinking about this difference may answer the question if a house could ever achieve the things Scottish towns add.

[Jerry Kluger]

Are there holes at Pebble Beach with houses on both sides and if so, how are they when compared with those that have the ocean on one side which certainly adds to the holes.

[Richard Hetzel]

Most places I would say that homes detract from the view and experience. One place I really did not mind was at Redlands Mesa in Colorado. Most were up at a higher elevation.

To answer your question, I don't think that they can ever "enhance" a golf course.

[Mark Fedeli]

I was pretty enamored with the homes alongside North Berwick as well. I do think they can add to the experience, as long as they’re out of play and nearly as interesting as the course. Don’t always hurt, at least.

[Mark_Fine]

Jerry,
It has been discussed and debated on this site forever; are the views off the course part of or not part of the design/architecture?  Some say they are not and they should not have any impact since they are out of the architect’s control.  That is all true isn’t it 

[Jerry Kluger]

Mark it is still absolutely true but my recent experience showed me that no matter how much I try to focus on the architecture of the course the architecture of the homes around it can have a dramatic affect.

[Joe_Tucholski]

Are there holes at Pebble Beach with houses on both sides and if so, how are they when compared with those that have the ocean on one side which certainly adds to the holes.

14 and 15 technically have houses on both sides.  1, 2 and 17 kind of have buildings on both sides.


The holes with buildings on one side and the ocean on the other are 4, 5 and 18.


Not going to include 10, 11 and 12 that have the maintenance facility bordering.


I can't make any conclusion based on those groups of holes.  I like 14 and think of 15 as rather forgetful.  I like 2 and 17 but not a big fan of 1.  I like 4 and 18 but don't love 5.  I think I would say the same about the holes with water or without and with buildings and without. 


As an entire course I don't think Pebble would be the same without the ocean views, say for example the ocean was a cliff in AZ, UT, CO (there'd still be some pretty spectacular holes though).


To answer the original question I've never encountered buildings that enhanced the course.  For me this includes many mentioned in Scotland.

[mike_malone]

I wouldn’t say houses enhance the course but do create a sense of place. Some courses are neighborhood courses. My home course has houses because the suburbs of Philly exploded after 1926.


  So we are connected to our neighbors and give the teenagers a place to drink at night and the sledders a great place to go in the snow.


I honestly don’t even notice them.


A modern course that I thought gave the good land to the course instead of the houses is Odessa National in Delaware.

[Jerry Kluger]

Mayday: Could you explain what made the land for the golf course better than the land for the houses?

[mike_malone]

Mayday: Could you explain what made the land for the golf course better than the land for the houses?

The course has some water running through it which would have been nice for homes. There are a few nice hills on the course which for Delaware is a big deal. Instead of houses on the hills there was golf.
I only saw a hole with houses close by.


There are two courses on the other side of town that have houses on both sides.
It looks like the houses came first then the course.
Odessa looks like the course came first.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Courses such as Winter Park 9, that exist in a true urban park environment, draw a lot from their community feel. You extract the course from its city park setting and put it in more natural expanse and the feeling around the course would be dramatically different. It would lose something about the place of the course and how it interacts with surrounding neighborhood.

[JLahrman]

Courses such as Winter Park 9, that exist in a true urban park environment, draw a lot from their community feel. You extract the course from its city park setting and put it in more natural expanse and the feeling around the course would be dramatically different. It would lose something about the place of the course and how it interacts with surrounding neighborhood.

I was going to say that about The Presidio in SF.


Does MacKenzie's house enhance Pasatiempo?


I've never played it, but when I was watching the Golf Digest video on "Every hole at Winged Foot" prior to the 2020 US Open I remember liking the way that some of the holes had some nice homes behind the green that added to the parkland feel. I'd imagine you could say that about a lot of courses.

[Sean_A]

I played a new course this weekend which is within a new housing development.  Most of the holes on the front nine had houses being built and they really hurt the appearance of the holes.  So much so that the few holes without houses just looked many times better.  Then played the back nine which had no houses and felt that it flowed so well through the mature trees and ponds.  I was trying to be as objective as I could be in comparing the two nines and all I could think about was how the back nine was going to look after so many trees are removed and houses built.

Are there courses where houses have minimal affect on the golf course or perhaps even enhance the course?

I would say a few houses at North Berwick are a slightly negative visual impact, but not much because its easy to look at the sea going out. A few others are no bother because there are no views in their direction. They sit above the course. But I can't think of a course which is visually better for houses.

So far as a residential course, Hope Valley is very good. The housing doesn't enhance the course, but the course was designed to be in a neighbourhood. I spose Yeamans is good that way as well.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Good question Jerry.
It's not just the houses it's all the other things that go with them.
One of the best aspects of playing golf is the peace and tranquillity of being out on the course.
The lack of noise, movement and the absence of the hurly-burly of everyday life. Take these away and golf becomes a far less appealing game/pastime.
atb

[Mike_Clayton]

Sunningdale has some beautiful houses adding to the golf. The old one, over the hill, on the 7th might be the best of them.

[Philippe Binette]

The houses behind and around the 9th green / 10th tee at Royal Lytham really create a nice little corner on the golf course...

[Paul Jones]

Places like Kiawah Island (River Course) did a great job of having the houses pushed back from the course and the back of the homes, has to look like the front of those homes.  When you looked down the fairway, you did not see the homes.  I really hate it when build a house directly behind a green.  GC of Georgia did a good job also, original owner would not let the homeowners cut down trees that were close to the golf course.


I usually do not mind when homes are only on 1 side of the hole and pushed away.

[Jim_Coleman]

  I’ll give you two houses on the course, not next to it, that enhance the experience. One is Milton Hershey’s house on #5 at Hershey.  The other is the historical house (second oldest in the county) behind #12 at Rolling Green. I believe it adds to the beauty of the hole.

[Dave Doxey]

Simply having houses border the course does not bother me, although a course without them is much better looking.  What does bother me is when a real estate course is clearly routed with the intent of maximizing the number of lots that can be sold at a premium as “on the golf course” or to make use of land unsuited for houses.  This often in an results in an unwalkable course with long distances between holes, multiple road crossings, and cart paths through yards or between houses. Those of you who design courses likely have comments or stories on this.

[Mark Fedeli]

Why does the town of St. Andrews enhance that course?  I think almost everyone agrees that it makes 17 and 18 more memorable and better.  The shops and hotel are certainly a lot more charming than a suburban McMansion, but is there anything else to it?  I wonder if it's just that it's public and busy vs silent and private.


Thinking about this difference may answer the question if a house could ever achieve the things Scottish towns add.

To a certain extent, I think the answer is yes. Using Riviera again, it’s a better golf experience and a more interesting golf course because of the homes surrounding it. Thick walls of trees would add nothing to Riv. It’s exclusivity is all the isolation it needs. The homes and the stories of their owners help you feel part of the action that’s just as native to LA as finishing back in town is to St Andrews.

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