[Steve Lang]

Has anyone up there been at the Ferry Point Park GC site or the new course during it's development?  Any aerials?

What other new courses, within the last 5 years will it be competing with in the greater NY area?

What will be its likely greens fees?


Reference From:
What's Happening in NYC, Winter 2003 Newsletter.. at
http://www.nycvisit.com/content/index.cfm?pagePkey=7

The new Jack Nicklaus-designed Ferry Point Park Golf Course, currently under development in the Bronx, is the first new golf course to be built in New York City in 35 years. The 220-acre project will include a driving range, 35,000 square feet of banquet/conference space, and freestanding restaurants. Located on nearly one mile of waterfront in what has been called the best new golf course location in the United States, Ferry Point Park is within 20 minutes of midtown Manhattan and is convenient to western Long Island, Westchester County, southern Connecticut, and northern New Jersey. The golf facilities will be open to the public and will operate on a daily-fee basis. The driving range, banquet/conference center, and restaurants are expected to open by the end of 2003 and the golf course in the late spring or early summer of 2004.

[Norbert P]

 Sounds great.  Ya think the Dodgers may come back now?

[SPDB]

There was an article about it and the developer behind it in this past sunday's NY Times
the link to which is below

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/13/nyregion/13FEAT.html

[GeoffreyC]

Steve

I'm not totally sure of my facts here but why should that stop me  

I believe that the budget for this project is about $17,000,000.  I have not seen any work being done for quite some time and someone told me there might be a problem with permits that allowed 500,000 CY of earth to be moved but the project exceeded that already well before finishing the shaping. What will become of it and how good a course it will be remains a question in my mind.  What is more important in my mind is the budget and how it will be used to best serve the people in the surrounding neighborhoods.

That said, this is hardly the best new location in the US.  NYC and surrounds needs new public facilities.  Instead of a rustic canyon or wild horse minimalist effort, they offer this much more expensive project.  I've heard that greens fees are to be $75 which more then doubles the price of nearby NYC public courses.  THey will price themselves out of the local urban golfers that play at nearby Split Rock and Pelham and likely cater to suburban players from more affluent neighborhoods in Westchester County and Long Island. I question why they would not take a few million out of the 17 million dollar pot to restore Pelham and Split Rock which are really first rate courses currently being neglected.  Split Rock in particular is a course that I could enjoy every day if it had better cnditioning and pace of play. It is a wonderful van Styles design featuring WILD greens, deep bunkers, cross bunkers and good landforms.  Some tree removal, bunker and tee restoration, irrigation system, maintenance budget and properly spaced tee times could make this a nationally known course! Why put all $17,000,000 in one pot for a Jack Nicklaus signature course done by one of his sons or son's in law?

[GeoffreyC]

SPDB- thanks for the NY Times reference.  

[Chris_Blakely]

Drove over the Whitestone Bridge yesterday and like everytime I go over the bridge I check the progress or lack-there-of, as I am would like to see this project get started.  Not much has happened on the site since they cleared all of the overgrowth, garbage, and abandoned cars two years ago.

As for Split Rock golf course, it was designed by John Van Kleek who before the depression did have a design partnership with Wayne Stiles.  Once the depression hit they disolved this partnership and went their separate ways.  John Van Kleek was hired by Robert Mosses (at a paltrey rate) to renovate some of the existing NYC courses and design several new ones and add additions to others.  Stiles added 9 holes onto Pelham GC and designed the full 18 hole Split Rock course.

The Split Rock course is a lot of fun to play and does have great green sites, bunkering and a terrific layout.  Calling for simple tree removal is an understatement as if I remeber correctly, thre are several holes on the back nine which are beyond tight!!

[GeoffreyC]

golfnut- thanks for correcting me on van Kleek.  It was a momentary brain freeze trying to type a response before a meeting at work.

Wouldn't you agree that spending some $$$ on Split Rock, a real muni,  rather then ALL the huge investment in a CCFAD with high greens fees would serve the community better?  Furthermore, do you believe that the new course whenever it MIGHT get built will be better golf then Split Rock?

[Steve Lang]

The last time I was in the Bronx, it was 1983 and scary, but I may return this coming May 1-3.. what Muni's or public courses would I play for two days in this area other than NGLA if that was possible?

s

[Mike_Sweeney]

Steve,

It probably depends on where you are going to be logistically ie Manhattan, Long Island or Jersey. Most of the better public courses are at least an hour from Manhattan, so your logistics will matter. Bethpage Black and Red are the obvious ones. As a single you can PROBABLY get on The Black very late in the day and get in 12 or 13 holes. In The Bronx, Pelham and Split Rock are much better than you would expect, but it probably should not be your only reference point to NYC golf. When you know your logistics, shoot me an email, and I can tell you more local choices.

[Chris_Blakely]

Geoffrey Childs,

I would 100 percent agree that spending some serious money on Split Rock rather than building another country-club-for-a-day course would be the better way to go.  I too love the course; but, I hate what American golf has done to it.  However, I think that they are going for a name and a certain market here rather than upgrading a muni-course.  From a non-golf standpoint, I know several homeowners in that area and they are excited at the course possibley being built (compared to what was there, this would be a lot better).  One community logistic that I am not sure if the owners have lookied into is the Throgss Neck Projects (5 to 8 high rise appartment complexes) that will be adjacent to the NW corner of the course.  The NYPD actually has a presinct located in the projects.

I am not sure how good the course will be. Since, I have walked the entire section of the site(park) before it was to become a golf course, I am very very interested to see how Nicklaus will incorporate the section of property along the sound.  If used creatively, this could make for some great golf holes and greensites.  I have played several Niclaus courses and am not sure what the finished product will be; but, I would still guess Split Rock will still be better and still have 6 to 7 hour rounds on the weekend, even when FPPGC opens.

[GeoffreyC]

golfnut

I'm quite familiar with the area and I believe that a golf course represents a good way to use some of this site. Its much needed in the area. The serious amount of money being put into one project seems to me to be to be in the interests of fewer people then alternatives that would upgrade the two current courses and build a new course using more minimalistic architecture.  I frequent a local driving range nearby during lunch hour from work and I can't recall any residents who are very interested in this project.

[McCloskey]

Geoff

From what I understand the new course in on a land fill that requires about 1,200,000 yards of fill to cover and construct the new golf course.  This will take time, possibly 3 years to complete.   I don't think you will be disappointed with the finished product.

[GeoffreyC]

McCloskey-  Thanks for the information.  If it is true about the 1.2 million CY then why has the work been so slow or actually stopped for so long?  At the rate that work is going it will never finish.  Word that I had heard was that the permit allowed 0.5 million CY and that was exceeded already.  Is there a plan for the course and its construction that you could share with us?

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