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Adam G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Long Par 3s With Wild Greens
« on: June 24, 2022, 08:39:59 PM »
I had the pleasure of playing Kittansett this week. Everyone talks about the holes on the water (and even a green in the middle of the beach!) but the hole that left by far the deepest impression on me was 11, a 253-yard semi-blind hole over a yawning bunker 50 yards short of the green with the boldest green on the course -- and one of the boldest greens anywhere. It typically plays with a cross wind from the right and somewhat into the player, although I saw it dead into a good breeze.


It's hard to explain the green but I'll try. The high left side slopes severely front to back. The low right side is front to back in front and back to front at the rear, with a large tier in between the halves that is 3 feet at the back. The green abruptly falls several feet to a chipping area at the rear. Running shots played into the left side with the right weight funnel to back right hole locations which do not accept a ball on the fly, but a shot too far will roll off the back and leave a difficult chip. You can see what I mean in this video, which does a better job than anything I can write after one visit. The 11th stands out in particular to the rest of the greens, which are quite subtle.


This hole left me asking: Why are there not more long par 3s with wild greens (besides Biarritz and Redan templates)? 11 is a real kick in the teeth, but such a unique and memorable hole that it made me wonder why I've never seen anything like it. Are architects afraid of putting something so bold at the end of a long hole? And if so, why did Flynn do it at Kittansett? Are there any other holes like 11 where by far the boldest green is at such a daunting hole?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 09:07:44 PM by Adam G »

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Par 3s With Wild Greens
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2022, 09:52:16 PM »
easy-the fair police took over years ago.
It used to be somewhat common to see par 3's that required a driver or three wood.

Now they're 15 yards longer  and much cooler because they're "driveable" par 4's.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Par 3s With Wild Greens
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2022, 10:24:34 PM »
 8) :P :'(


To this day I regret that the green on the third at Twisted Dune misses the mark. It's about 250 from the tips but the green is the worst I've built ......had a real opportunity to make this a super fun long par three but it's too hard as it sits today. Green doesn't fit the shot.  Would love to go back someday and fix it!

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Par 3s With Wild Greens
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2022, 02:44:55 AM »
Adam


That's a fabulous looking hole. I can see the contours come into the wild category but they don't look intricate. In other words it looks as though you can see and understand the challenge from the tee. I'd love to play that hole.


Archie


I don't know your hole but I tend to think that often some of the best holes on old courses are the best holes because the greens no longer play as designed ie. the greens aren't fair. One hole that immediately comes to mind is the 4th at Moray Old. It's now a long par 3 played to a small semi-bathtub green sitting at an angle. Back in the day it was a drive slightly to the left leaving a short pitch up the green. Now it requires a bit of a fade/slice which most golfers are familiar with to a narrow entrance. It's the "unfairness" that makes it.


What do others think about the hole ?


Niall

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Par 3s With Wild Greens
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2022, 04:38:47 AM »
Back in the day those long 3s may have been drive and pitch holes.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2022:

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Par 3s With Wild Greens
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2022, 05:04:38 AM »
Back in the day those long 3s may have been drive and pitch holes.
Ciao
I was thinking the same. And ĎBogey 4í as well maybe?
Atb

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +0/-1
Re: Long Par 3s With Wild Greens
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2022, 01:00:52 PM »
This hole left me asking: Why are there not more long par 3s with wild greens (besides Biarritz and Redan templates)? 11 is a real kick in the teeth, but such a unique and memorable hole that it made me wonder why I've never seen anything like it. Are architects afraid of putting something so bold at the end of a long hole? And if so, why did Flynn do it at Kittansett? Are there any other holes like 11 where by far the boldest green is at such a daunting hole?


This question is probably the best explanation I have seen for the fetish for Biarritz and Redan greens among practicing architects -- that they are one of the few reliable ways to introduce a long par-3 hole with a built-in rejoinder to anyone who decries them as unfair.


You often see difficult green targets on long par-4 holes because they were built as par-5's, but it's less common that a short 4 becomes a long 3.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Par 3s With Wild Greens
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2022, 04:29:18 PM »
#7 at Glen Mills is four tiers and 200 plus yards. It does have a bounce off the hill onto the green fairway on the left which gives you a break.


Itís fun and unpredictable.


Too bad the reform school closed and maintenance has suffered. I was told the school might be reopening which might improve things.


This solid course deserves good conditions.
AKA Mayday

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Par 3s With Wild Greens
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2022, 08:25:14 PM »
The 8th at Oakmont can be stretched to 300 yards. Thereís a series of bunkers on the right and a Sahara bunker on the left thatís the length of the green. Itís not a crazy green with undulations but at a green speed of 13 to 15 it will get your attention.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Par 3s With Wild Greens
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2022, 01:00:01 PM »
The 4th and 13th at Rossí Hill Course at French Lick warrant mention.  See Ranís excellent review.  A highly underrated course in my book.
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Par 3s With Wild Greens
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2022, 02:07:29 PM »
Number 15 at Ballyneal seems to qualify.

Eric LeFante

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Par 3s With Wild Greens
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2022, 02:49:14 PM »
8th hole at Somerset Hills is very long, you feel great when you hit the green in regulation, but par is not assured considering how many mounds are in the green.


3, 9, 17 at Merion are all very long with difficult greens.


The new 17th at Hollywood has a diabolical green.


The 14th at Plainfield is long, has a wild green, and is fronted by water! (not an original hole)

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