News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 12:12:31 AM by cary lichtenstein »
Lived Chicago, now Jupiter, Fl, was a 4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 3 back, wrist, shoulder surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, I don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2022, 09:42:44 PM »
 8)  Monahan must have called his mentor Finchem for advise... Finchem likely said: "well, we co-opted Norman once, why not do it again!"
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Phil was NOT right
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2022, 10:04:31 PM »
Phil wasn't right about a bunch of things, and… of course the PGA Tour is reacting. Did you expect them to just sit by and do nothing?

Also, why is this yet another new topic?
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2022, 12:18:56 AM »
This is a new topic because the old Phil topic was yesterday's news, whereas this is a major new development, totally unexpected (by me). It won't stop the movement of the older player to LIV, but should prevent the younger stars from jumping ship. It will be interesting to see if LIV has a counter move.
Lived Chicago, now Jupiter, Fl, was a 4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 3 back, wrist, shoulder surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, I don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2022, 12:44:35 AM »


While not history it’s historical. I received a phone call from a source that should have direct knowledge that the Saudi Investment Fund has made a substantial offer to acquire the DP European Tour & that the DP Tour has countered. He believes that the PGA Tour is trying to enter in that negotiation and possibly buy the DP Tour.

Second to that the Saudi Golf Investment Fund has offered NBC $300m to acquire the Golf Channel.

I do not have a second source, but my contact is very close to the situation. From While not history it’s historical. I received a phone call from a source that should have direct knowledge that the Saudi Investment Fund has made a substantial offer to acquire the DP European Tour & that the DP Tour has countered. He believes that the PGA Tour is trying to enter in that negotiation and possibly buy the DP Tour.

Second to that the Saudi Golf Investment Fund has offered NBC $300m to acquire the Golf Channel.

I do not have a second source, but my contact is very close to the situation.  From Connor T. Lewis of Society of Golf Historians



"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2022, 01:07:57 PM »
Still curious what you think Phil was "right" about.

https://twitter.com/nolayingup/status/1539655470956298240

He was right they are "dangerous you-know-whats," I guess. He may have been right that Jay Monahan isn't a great guy. I don't know. But he was provably wrong about several of the things he's said, including the cash reserves, including the amount paid out to players as a percentage, and including the "digital assets" they've got.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2022, 01:59:36 PM »
He said he believes the funding produced by the Saudi Golf League will help to levitate the sport, and the money can be used to reshape the nature of the PGA tour.

He added that working with the Saudis was a “once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates”
In my words, it gave the players leverage to negotiate with the PGA Tour to help them make more money. I think the first salvo, was the PGA Tour announcement
of the 8 tournaments averaging $20m, the no cut policy, and a few more things that I'm not clear about.
I think this is a work in progress because the LIV will get creative and throw out more "goodies" and the PGA Tour will respond so as to keep the drain on talent to a min.
The players thus far joining LIV are either past their prime, injury prone, want to secure their future. Look at Ricky Fowler, a great guy whose lost his game. I bet he'll jump to secure his future.
Don't get me wrong, I wish the LIV didn't exist and the PGA Tour did these things on their own, but secretly, I bet the players SECRETLY ARE THANKING DJ AND MICKELSON.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 02:10:44 PM by cary lichtenstein »
Lived Chicago, now Jupiter, Fl, was a 4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 3 back, wrist, shoulder surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, I don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2022, 02:22:20 PM »
Just watched Monahan's presser on TGC.  I'll admit that I dozed off toward the end of it, so I might have missed it, but "appeal to the fans" was hardly mentioned.  It was all about maximizing income to the pros.  Maybe appealing to the fans is implicit, since no fans equal no money (LIV is the only current exception).  But I'd liked to have heard him explain more about how the PGA Tour model, going forward, will be more appealing to the fans (as he must assume it will be).

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2022, 02:23:09 PM »
He said he believes the funding produced by the Saudi Golf League will help to levitate the sport, and the money can be used to reshape the nature of the PGA tour. He added that working with the Saudis was a “once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates”
Levitate? How is LIV "levitating" (or even elevating) the sport?

It seems you bought Phil's line of bullshit hook, line, and sinker. He's not working with the PGA Tour to "reshape how it operates." He threw the PGA Tour under a bus after greatly misunderstanding (and misstating) several things. He took the cash from the Saudis. His "smartest man in the room" syndrome took over and he tried to back-justify it.

Don't get me wrong, I wish the LIV didn't exist and the PGA Tour did these things on their own, but secretly, I bet the players SECRETLY ARE THANKING DJ AND MICKELSON.
Phil doesn't care about the majority of the players on the PGA Tour. He cares about himself and, only by matter of extension, other already well-established, famous, good players. He doesn't care about the player ranked 112th.

Thank you for answering. I thought you might say he was right about the money the Tour has in its coffers (I think he said $800M, when it was $300M before the COVID stuff), or some of the other many things he got provably wrong.

Just watched Monahan's presser on TGC.  I'll admit that I dozed off toward the end of it, so I might have missed it, but "appeal to the fans" was hardly mentioned.  It was all about maximizing income to the pros.  Maybe appealing to the fans is implicit, since no fans equal no money (LIV is the only current exception).  But I'd liked to have heard him explain more about how the PGA Tour model, going forward, will be more appealing to the fans (as he must assume it will be).
The Tour couldn't care less about the fans. They take all of us (them) for granted.

That said, without players as you note, there are no fans. And he works for the players, not the fans.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2022, 02:51:49 PM »
"The Tour couldn't care less about the fans. They take all of us (them) for granted."  Maybe they'll learn that they should not take the fans for granted.  Remains to be seen.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2022, 02:56:39 PM »
"The Tour couldn't care less about the fans. They take all of us (them) for granted."  Maybe they'll learn that they should not take the fans for granted.  Remains to be seen.


I think this is an interesting comment and probably correct.

But while the Tour leadership perhaps doesn't care, I would think the tournament organizers actually do, and seem to be putting in more effort with bigger grandstands, gimmicks, celebrations, etc.  As much as Waste Mgmt. went over the top this last year, I don't think anyone can dispute their passion/dedication to the event.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2022, 03:05:44 PM »
I prefer how the USGA entertains us by ramping up the architecture. I'll go see hockey if I want spectacle.


If history is any indication, Waste Management signaled the end of our Father's PGA.

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2022, 06:31:46 PM »
Regarding the fans.  How important is the TV audience?  I'd guess TV is where the big money is, but that's only a guess.  I rarely go to events in person (don't even plan to attend the upcoming Presidents Cup even though it's going to be almost right outside my back door), but I'll watch lots of TV golf (and plan to follow the PC on the flat screen).  If fans quit tuning into TV golf, won't that be a big problem for the PGA Tour?

Jim O’Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2022, 10:12:36 PM »
I prefer how the USGA entertains us by ramping up the architecture. I'll go see hockey if I want spectacle.


If history is any indication, Waste Management signaled the end of our Father's PGA.


Amen. Every word. And I love hockey. It's a beautiful spectacle at times.

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2022, 05:04:14 PM »
Still curious what you think Phil was "right" about.

https://twitter.com/nolayingup/status/1539655470956298240

He was right they are "dangerous you-know-whats," I guess. He may have been right that Jay Monahan isn't a great guy. I don't know. But he was provably wrong about several of the things he's said, including the cash reserves, including the amount paid out to players as a percentage, and including the "digital assets" they've got.


Well, as in the past, the tour always seems to find a cache of millions when threatened to throw at the players to placate them. Maybe that’s it.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2022, 05:15:44 PM »
During a lengthy wait for our clubs at the airport, a former club pro I ran into asked me what I thought of the new "Bin Laden LIV Tour".  The guy is a known comedian and I hadn't heard the new tour referred that way before, so I was caught off guard.  When I figured it out, I said that a little competition might actually make the PGA Tour more responsive to its members' needs, and though he disapproved of the disruption, he acknowledged that maybe something good could come out of it.


Apparently he knew quite a bit about the pension system, because when I mentioned that I was aware of a former member (Pat Burke) who made 76 cuts on the Tour and received no pension, he noted that the cut-off was 100.  He also stated that he knew of a fairly well-known former member who had his fairly modest pension cut-off after passing 90 years of age.


I am a big supporter of the PGA Tour, but I think it should be an organization which represents all of its members first, with a fairly intense focus on providing value to its fans, volunteers, corporate partners, and suppliers, not necessarily in that order.  As a non-profit organization with many very special privileges, its accounting/financial reporting is rather oblique, and it seems to have adopted an approach which is the opposite of what is known in government as regulatory capture.  From my admittedly limited understanding of its legal structure and finances, the Tour bureaucracy appears to be more interested in fiercely defending the status quo and its very privileged position than to improve the well-being of its current and past players.  If I had upwards $1 Billion in uncommitted assets, I would certainly explore ways to keep the competition at bay; it is not that the powers-that-be didn't know that Norman and company were openly trying to find a gap in their wall.


For competitive purposes and more direct ways to join The Show, I wonder if a return to a much smaller exempt list- was it 60 players at one time?- and more qualifying opportunities might elevate the level of play and bring more interest.  I lived-scored for Nito Pereira's group last year at the local Korn Ferry event and always look to see how he is doing.  I have heard that there is a lot of complacency among the bottom half of the exempt list and a competitive threat just might be a good antidote.         



 

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yikes...Phil was right...PGA tour elects to compete with LIV
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 08:22:32 PM »
It's been dubbed the Saw-di Tour in my neck of the woods.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back