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Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2022, 02:34:11 PM »
The migration to LIV isnít over and that one tournament isnít sufficient to handicap interest going forward. Iím thinking that the joke may end up being on the PGA Tour most especially when you get an LIV player that wins a major.
The point has been made lately that the LIV Tour may not be the best place to play if you want to keep your game in fighting shape. The best LIV player at the U.S. Open was Dustin JohnsonÖ at T24, I think. No cut, $120k for last place, three roundsÖ that may not help players prepare for majors like playing The Memorial or something.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2022, 02:40:36 PM »
https://www.loc.gov/collections/jackie-robinson-baseball/articles-and-essays/baseball-the-color-line-and-jackie-robinson/1940-to-1946/




Read the above and listen to yourselves. In your world you might believe that Jackie Robinson destroyed the Negro League.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2022, 02:51:32 PM »
https://www.loc.gov/collections/jackie-robinson-baseball/articles-and-essays/baseball-the-color-line-and-jackie-robinson/1940-to-1946/




Read the above and listen to yourselves. In your world you might believe that Jackie Robinson destroyed the Negro League.


Iím not buying it. Interesting conflation, but it ainít the same.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2022, 03:01:00 PM »
The migration to LIV isnít over and that one tournament isnít sufficient to handicap interest going forward. Iím thinking that the joke may end up being on the PGA Tour most especially when you get an LIV player that wins a major.
The point has been made lately that the LIV Tour may not be the best place to play if you want to keep your game in fighting shape. The best LIV player at the U.S. Open was Dustin JohnsonÖ at T24, I think. No cut, $120k for last place, three roundsÖ that may not help players prepare for majors like playing The Memorial or something.


With only one LIV event and one Major to date since the new tourís inception I think we are a little light on data no? What happened to the STAT Man? ???   I know what the Memorial is but what is ďsomething?Ē
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 03:03:45 PM by Tim Martin »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2022, 03:15:20 PM »
Tim,

While I think your last point is valid, the facts remain:  The LIV Tour is mostly has beens and never was kind of guys, so its not hard to infer in its current state, that's its not exactly a good move if you care about your game and routinely playing again the best competition to stay sharp.

But sure if its about the Benjamins, putting your career on cruise control, and cashing easy checks then I can't argue against that, (morality questions aside).  And its not like they are the only pro athletes who do this.  There are certainly guys in football, baseball, basketball who cash in on a long term contract and ride it out....but there are also some who take a lot less than market value to win a championship like the GOAT of the NBA.

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2022, 03:25:32 PM »
Tim,

While I think your last point is valid, the facts remain:  The LIV Tour is mostly has beens and never was kind of guys, so its not hard to infer in its current state, that's its not exactly a good move if you care about your game and routinely playing again the best competition to stay sharp.

But sure if its about the Benjamins, putting your career on cruise control, and cashing easy checks then I can't argue against that, (morality questions aside).  And its not like they are the only pro athletes who do this.  There are certainly guys in football, baseball, basketball who cash in on a long term contract and ride it out....but there are also some who take a lot less than market value to win a championship like the GOAT of the NBA.


Steph Curry?
"I used to get pissed at blowing leads until I quit having them" John Kavanaugh

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2022, 03:27:50 PM »
Tim,

While I think your last point is valid, the facts remain:  The LIV Tour is mostly has beens and never was kind of guys, so its not hard to infer in its current state, that's its not exactly a good move if you care about your game and routinely playing again the best competition to stay sharp.


Kalen-Ian M. noted in his reply number 9 that LIV players have won 9 of the last 21 Majors. Thereís a stat for you. ;)









Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #57 on: June 22, 2022, 04:28:47 PM »
Tim,

While I think your last point is valid, the facts remain:  The LIV Tour is mostly has beens and never was kind of guys, so its not hard to infer in its current state, that's its not exactly a good move if you care about your game and routinely playing again the best competition to stay sharp.

Kalen-Ian M. noted in his reply number 9 that LIV players have won 9 of the last 21 Majors. Thereís a stat for you. ;)

Lets see:

1-  Phil, that's not happening again
1 - Sergio, Ditto, done
1 - Pat Reed, likely a one and done, but you never know
1 - Bryson - Total head case, he's already taking about mentally checking out with his massive payday, but he's young and proven.
1 - DJ - Nothing seems to get to him, but at 38, his best chances are quickly running out.
4 - Brooks - Been fighting lots of injuries, but OK he's probably the most plausible future threat as majors are the only tourney's he seems to give a shit about.

So as it sits right now, you got 2 guys who are likely in Bryson and Brooks, and 2 maybes in DJ and Reed.  I won't say that's nothing, but assuming no other big names defect, I'm guessing LIV players will win maybe 3-4 Majors at best in the next 5 years.

P.S.  Rob, the GOAT I was referring to is MJ

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2022, 04:52:57 PM »
Hadn't thought of it by country.
Who will you miss?


Seriously?


I have read so many "good riddance" comments on here these last few weeks, I can only presume you were meaning America.


I fail to see who I could possibly miss, as I will continue to view World Golf as I always have.

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #59 on: June 22, 2022, 04:57:15 PM »
The point has been made lately that the LIV Tour may not be the best place to play if you want to keep your game in fighting shape. The best LIV player at the U.S. Open was Dustin JohnsonÖ at T24


I tell you, I wish I had noted that they were all in the same half of the draw.


The USGA got one over on me there.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #60 on: June 22, 2022, 05:04:33 PM »
I'm not alone in being one who roots for the ant-hero. Loved this season of Barry. Who is the best villain the PGA has left to offer?


Ouch. Playing the guys on the LIV tour off as villains during the USOpen does nothing for the John Deere Classic.


Dave Doxey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2022, 05:47:42 PM »
One good thing to come from all of this would be to have network coverage of golf improved. For core golf fans the LIV coverage put golf network coverage to shame.   LIV showed shots at a rate of 5 times that of networks.  Not mainly putts.  No coverage of players walking around their putt lines, reading yardage books, or standing around. Limited announcer babble and no puff pieces.  Zero commercial interruptions (but that likely will change...)

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #62 on: June 22, 2022, 06:22:04 PM »
I've used this analogy in another way, but this is like the first year of the fledgling AFL against the powerful NFL. Gradually, the AFL signed college players the NFL wanted, and eventually started plucking veterans off NFL rosters. Eventually, the leagues merged, and while it took three years, the AFL gained a measure of grudging respect from the old guard in Super Bowl III.


Golf has four Super Bowls a year. One has to think an LIV player winning would be a PR coup for the new tour, and that's a big reason why the PGA Tour would like to shut LIV players out.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2022, 06:24:59 PM »
There will be a new 5th Major.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2022, 06:26:57 PM »
One good thing to come from all of this would be to have network coverage of golf improved. For core golf fans the LIV coverage put golf network coverage to shame.   LIV showed shots at a rate of 5 times that of networks.  Not mainly putts.  No coverage of players walking around their putt lines, reading yardage books, or standing around. Limited announcer babble and no puff pieces.  Zero commercial interruptions (but that likely will change...)


Itís amazing what service you can provide if fiscal solvency isnít a concern.

Dave Doxey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #65 on: June 22, 2022, 08:00:13 PM »
One good thing to come from all of this would be to have network coverage of golf improved. For core golf fans the LIV coverage put golf network coverage to shame.   LIV showed shots at a rate of 5 times that of networks.  Not mainly putts.  No coverage of players walking around their putt lines, reading yardage books, or standing around. Limited announcer babble and no puff pieces.  Zero commercial interruptions (but that likely will change...)


Itís amazing what service you can provide if fiscal solvency isnít a concern.


I didn't realize that fiscal solvency required delivery of poor coverage.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2022, 08:22:41 PM »
With only one LIV event and one Major to date since the new tourís inception I think we are a little light on data no?
Yes, but the point others are making is that if you're just playing almost exhibition type matches, against no-name playersÖ you don't exactly need to keep your game sharp. What Kalen said.

One good thing to come from all of this would be to have network coverage of golf improved. For core golf fans the LIV coverage put golf network coverage to shame.   LIV showed shots at a rate of 5 times that of networks.  Not mainly putts.  No coverage of players walking around their putt lines, reading yardage books, or standing around. Limited announcer babble and no puff pieces.  Zero commercial interruptions (but that likely will change...)
Of course they couldÖ they had no commercials to show.

You can't compete against an irrational actor.


I didn't realize that fiscal solvency required delivery of poor coverage.
C'mon David.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2022, 08:48:17 PM »
Tim,

While I think your last point is valid, the facts remain:  The LIV Tour is mostly has beens and never was kind of guys, so its not hard to infer in its current state, that's its not exactly a good move if you care about your game and routinely playing again the best competition to stay sharp.

Kalen-Ian M. noted in his reply number 9 that LIV players have won 9 of the last 21 Majors. Thereís a stat for you. ;)

Lets see:

1-  Phil, that's not happening again
1 - Sergio, Ditto, done
1 - Pat Reed, likely a one and done, but you never know
1 - Bryson - Total head case, he's already taking about mentally checking out with his massive payday, but he's young and proven.
1 - DJ - Nothing seems to get to him, but at 38, his best chances are quickly running out.
4 - Brooks - Been fighting lots of injuries, but OK he's probably the most plausible future threat as majors are the only tourney's he seems to give a shit about.

So as it sits right now, you got 2 guys who are likely in Bryson and Brooks, and 2 maybes in DJ and Reed.  I won't say that's nothing, but assuming no other big names defect, I'm guessing LIV players will win maybe 3-4 Majors at best in the next 5 years.

P.S.  Rob, the GOAT I was referring to is MJ


Thank god. I thought you were talking about Lebron. Canít argue with MJ.
"I used to get pissed at blowing leads until I quit having them" John Kavanaugh

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #68 on: June 22, 2022, 10:52:33 PM »
Hadn't thought of it by country.
Who will you miss?


Seriously?



I fail to see who I could possibly miss, as I will continue to view World Golf as I always have.


So we're in complete agreement then. ;) ;D













 







"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Grant Saunders

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2022, 12:02:19 AM »
I'm curious:


For the players that have taken the stance about others leaving based on money and greed, do you think any of them would turn down the newly announced prize money on offer in the 8 events next year?


I also found it interesting the number of opinions I've seen holding up the theater and drama of the just held US Open as a win against the LIV tour. It was a USGA event, not a pga tour event. Outside of maybe a handful of pga events per year, the rest of them are rather uninspiring as a golf fan.





Don Baker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #70 on: June 23, 2022, 12:20:46 AM »
Has the PGA Tour ever played the "moral" card? If they have, I missed it. I think the Tour's stance has always been based on a desire to crush competition. I think they are smart enough to know that if they start making the morals argument, they will quickly get blown up fr the double standard.



Yes, actually they have played the morals card.  The commissioner in an interview on a recent golf telecast said, ďhas anyone ever had to apologize for being a member of the PGA Tour?Ē 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ Ö.. and if Norman is correct that the PGA Tour has 23 sponsors that do $40 Billion of business with the Saudiís, they should not be playing the shame card 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️😝

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #71 on: June 23, 2022, 01:36:34 AM »
I've used this analogy in another way, but this is like the first year of the fledgling AFL against the powerful NFL. Gradually, the AFL signed college players the NFL wanted, and eventually started plucking veterans off NFL rosters. Eventually, the leagues merged, and while it took three years, the AFL gained a measure of grudging respect from the old guard in Super Bowl III.


I roll my eyes AGAIN  ::)

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2022, 06:43:47 AM »
I've used this analogy in another way, but this is like the first year of the fledgling AFL against the powerful NFL. Gradually, the AFL signed college players the NFL wanted, and eventually started plucking veterans off NFL rosters. Eventually, the leagues merged, and while it took three years, the AFL gained a measure of grudging respect from the old guard in Super Bowl III.


I roll my eyes AGAIN  ::)


can you explain your position for those of us who sincerely don't understand what you're alluding to?

"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #73 on: June 23, 2022, 07:26:54 AM »
Did the tour just change the rules on the dudes that keep their card by finishing just in the top 125 each year? People hone their games to keep their card. Make strategic decisions and schedule events for that purpose. I hope they give these guys more than a few months notice.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #74 on: June 23, 2022, 07:43:21 AM »
Did the tour just change the rules on the dudes that keep their card by finishing just in the top 125 each year? People hone their games to keep their card. Make strategic decisions and schedule events for that purpose. I hope they give these guys more than a few months notice.
I have the same question
Lived Chicago, now Jupiter, Fl, was a 4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 3 back, wrist, shoulder surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, I don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms

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