News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Ben Sims

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2022, 02:08:53 PM »
Wasnít Koepka already a ďhandful of events and majorsĒ kind of player anyway?


Play less, guaranteed more money, itís not complicated why people do this. When a guy comes in that has never won on US soil and beats your brains in at a major that youíve won twice, the writing is on the wall. Itís tougher than ever to win on the PGA Tour or any major.


These guys arenít dumb anymore than Lincoln Riley is dumb. Make oodles more money in an easier league? Yes please.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 03:50:25 PM by Ben Sims »

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2022, 08:25:16 PM »
TPC Sawgrass is a big loser .... a much diminished field.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2022, 08:38:55 PM »
"I used to get pissed at blowing leads until I quit having them" John Kavanaugh

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2022, 08:56:15 PM »
Rob M. -

Yes, interesting article and thanks for the link.

In Koepka's case and for others, I wonder what the terms of guaranteed payment are regarding illness and injury that might cause a player not to be able to compete in the various LIV events (or not be able to play at all due to a severe, career ending injury).


It would also be interesting to know if the LIV players are committed to a "length of service" contract that obligates them to play on the LIV tour for a certain number of years and if their "signing bonuses" are pro-rated over their years of service due.


DT

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2022, 09:00:27 PM »
Interesting article from a few hours ago.

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/06/21/eamon-lynch-brooks-koepka-liv-golf-pga-tour/


Rob,

Interesting indeed, and it certainly rings true.  With Koepka joining the other outcasts of the tour, it truly is the island of misfit toys.  Perhaps they'll put BDC and Brooks in the same group and hope for fireworks...

P.S.  Given half his Tour wins are majors and he had 16 top 10s in majors across the last 8 years, it would sure seem that's all he cares about...

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2022, 12:28:13 AM »
With their limited no of events and small fields, every new "name" they sign means the end of a career playing professional golf for one of their earlier signings.


Why even practice if you are only going to get a call when the injury list is long? At the rate they are signing and their stated ambition,  we have seen the sudden end for some pretty well known players. Some will have a long  time wondering if they made the right decision. Of course many will have figured this out and be thankful that offered them a swift and lucrative  end to a period of decline.  For the majority currently signing with LIV, it will involve little golf being played.


LIV will select their fields relying more on market research than form.  Some players will seek to become more 'newsworthy ' and that may involve deliberately controversial on course behaviour.

 All of this does not bode well for the standard of competition or the likelihood that such behaviour will be copied away from screen events.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 12:54:54 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
on 29th May I am riding 100 Miles to help raise funds for Dementia Research. All donations are welcome.
https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ridelondon-tonymuldoon

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2022, 02:16:37 AM »
With their limited no of events and small fields, every new "name" they sign means the end of a career playing professional golf for one of their earlier signings.


Why even practice if you are only going to get a call when the injury list is long? At the rate they are signing and their stated ambition,  we have seen the sudden end for some pretty well known players. Some will have a long  time wondering if they made the right decision. Of course many will have figured this out and be thankful that offered them a swift and lucrative  end to a period of decline.  For the majority currently signing with LIV, it will involve little golf being played.


LIV will select their fields relying more on market research than form.  Some players will seek to become more 'newsworthy ' and that may involve deliberately controversial on course behaviour.

 All of this does not bode well for the standard of competition or the likelihood that such behaviour will be copied away from screen events.


And you can glean that from ... one event?

Důnal ” Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2022, 03:39:04 AM »
Conor Moore sums it up (even Gmac re-tweeted it  ??? ):  ;D


https://twitter.com/ConorSketches/status/1539279040468615168

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2022, 08:31:05 AM »
Interesting article from a few hours ago.


https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/06/21/eamon-lynch-brooks-koepka-liv-golf-pga-tour/


Eamon Lynch couldn't be less interesting. What would be interesting is if he wrote about facts instead of his moral high horse opinion every second of the day. Total loser.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2022, 08:53:29 AM »
Interesting article from a few hours ago.


https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/06/21/eamon-lynch-brooks-koepka-liv-golf-pga-tour/


Eamon Lynch couldn't be less interesting. What would be interesting is if he wrote about facts instead of his moral high horse opinion every second of the day. Total loser.


Fewer events equals fewer articles equals fewer golf parasites. Hard to think logically as your career circles the drain.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2022, 10:18:21 AM »
https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/34124761/brooks-koepka-becomes-latest-star-golfer-leave-pga-tour-liv-golf-series-sources-confirm

Not a surprise the way he was talking at Brookline. Good riddance.
By the way- Has anyone noticed that not one player who is leaving to join the LIV has been playing particularly well on the PGA Tour?


As Kalen says, the land of misfit toys-so far.
Saddens me to see this and its potential effect on PGA Tour Communities who benefit from the presence of PGA Tour events.
But so far, there have been zero players who will be missed by actual golf-the game-fans.
The last two events(actually National Canadian and US Opens) have been two of the most compelling events in some time, and zero LIV players were involved.


There have been quite a few press appointed "Superstars" minted in the last few years. Several have never once appeared to love golf the game,just the financial rewards available at the highest level of skill.Those appear to be the ones jumping, along with those of diminishing skills, or those who are at best socially awkward.
In Brooks' case, he recently made a comment about not being liked by some fans because of his "confidence"(I suspect it's somehing else). Taking guaranteed money is the exact opposite of confidence in one's future performance.


They will be quickly replaced, UNLESS they begin to show form in the Majors, then perhaps the Tour has a real problem.
I'll happily watch, Rory, Colin, Fitzpatrick, Spieth, Burns, Scheffler, Rahm and other new stars whose motivation to the best is about being the best at their craft, not the wealthiest.
Greg Norman doesn't seem particulalry happy to me.


At the present time, I know which side of the dividing line I'd want to be on, and people are often judged by the company they keep, and who knows where that will end up.
But they are free to choose.

"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2022, 10:29:54 AM »
Itís not a moral choice. The ďcommunityĒ excuse is why me and my fellow members allowed the Korn Ferry to destroy our club. It would have been ďimmoralĒ to come out against local charity.


The competition arguments Iíll buy.

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2022, 10:32:56 AM »
Well said Jeff. Sums it up perfectly.
"I used to get pissed at blowing leads until I quit having them" John Kavanaugh

Ryan Hillenbrand

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2022, 11:41:43 AM »
One benefit to joining LIV is they're immune from cancel culture.


They've got enough up front money that they don't need to worry about losing sponsorship dollars for what they do in their personal life, said on Twitter when they were 14, vulgarities picked up on a microphone, etc. They've got enough upfront dough to give the middle finger to anyone who doesn't like them - whether they're right or wrong. Can't imagine how empowering that is to someone in the public spotlight nowadays

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2022, 11:57:33 AM »
I believe Polo Golf canceled themselves.

PPallotta

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2022, 12:08:06 PM »
Some great musical artists including Dylan and Bowie and Young have recently sold parts or all of their musical libraries/catalogues to big corporations, for between $100 and $500 million. It's been called "cashing out", and some use that term derogatorily -- like we used to say 'selling out' in our younger days. But in the greediest and most capitalistic society the world has ever known and in the nearly empty shell of a culture obsessed above all else with fame and money and the outward status symbols of success and high net worth, it surprises me that anyone can bat an eye when the talent -- creative or sporting -- grabs for as much upfront cold hard cash as they possibly can. The only people I've ever heard say they're 'not in it for the money' are those who already have jolly sh-tloads of it.


« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 12:12:16 PM by PPallotta »

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2022, 12:09:48 PM »
Some great musical artists including Dylan and Bowie and Young have recently sold parts or all of their musical libraries/catalogues to big corporations, for between $100 and $500 million. It's been called "cashing out", and some use that term derogatorily -- like we used to say 'selling out' in our younger days. But in the greediest and most capitalistic society the world has ever known and in the nearly empty shell of a culture obsessed above all else with fame and money and the outward status symbols of success and high net worth, it surprises me that anyone can bat an eye when the talent -- creative or sporting -- grabs for as much upfront cold hard cash as they possibly can.
They're literally going to die soon, though. It's a bit different. If they don't "cash out" now, they won't get "their" money ó their estates will. If they have their money, they can more directly decide what to do with it.

Not quite the same as Brooks Koepka "cashing out" IMO.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Don Mahaffey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2022, 12:13:07 PM »
I find it laughable to infer that the tour and its players arenít in it for the money.  Do they want to make big money doing what they love? Absolutely.   


Do they want the tour to find purses like those in the LIV? Absolutely.


Yes communities benefit from tour events. But the tour will drop the community in a heartbeat if the purse isnít what they want it to be. 


The stars staying with the tour are like MLB players hitting free agency next year. They are perfectly content to see peers get big money this year as purses and contracts do not often go in reverse.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2022, 12:28:40 PM »
Weíve never hated white athletes before for getting rich. Progressive racism.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2022, 12:52:38 PM »
Some great musical artists including Dylan and Bowie and Young have recently sold parts or all of their musical libraries/catalogues to big corporations, for between $100 and $500 million. It's been called "cashing out", and some use that term derogatorily -- like we used to say 'selling out' in our younger days. But in the greediest and most capitalistic society the world has ever known and in the nearly empty shell of a culture obsessed above all else with fame and money and the outward status symbols of success and high net worth, it surprises me that anyone can bat an eye when the talent -- creative or sporting -- grabs for as much upfront cold hard cash as they possibly can. The only people I've ever heard say they're 'not in it for the money' are those who already have jolly sh-tloads of it.


There are plenty of people playing professional golf tours who did not jump, and there are plenty without sh-tloads of money who play for other reasons. Amateurs for instance? Club Pros who compete and earn little, yet still do it for the joy and test of competition, with little chance of winning anything except their own personal goals, and nearly always have a net financial loss on the week.
(I think we were called "donaters" on the mini tours)


Having enough money and time to have maximum opportunities and reasonable security is of course important to maximize one's potential(see Jon Rahm's take)
Sure it's easy to say you're not in it for the money when you have multi millions, but there are plenty who are driven for the sheer competition and see whatever money they make as a means to further success at their craft and their legacy.


I'll be curious to see where LIV players who jumped year one(vs. those who didn't) are in ten years time in terms of accomplishment, job satisfaction and personal lives, their Instagram followers notwithstanding.


Don brings up a very interesting take on pros watching as if free agents next year, and that there is little cost to that-seems at least a shrewder move, regardless of one's take on LIV.


Maybe there's an eventual compromise if players keep jumping(especially if Don's right), but at the moment I just won't miss those who left.
There are plenty of stars lurking with compelling stories who just need a break, and the average fan couldn't tell their game from a Na, a Phil or even a Koepka anywhere perhaps except at a Major.Who knew who Sam Burns, Scottie Scheffler, Cameron Young or even Zalatoris were 15 months ago?
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2022, 01:21:21 PM »
But so far, there have been zero players who will be missed by actual golf-the game-fans.


You mean Americans?

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2022, 01:37:59 PM »
But so far, there have been zero players who will be missed by actual golf-the game-fans.


You mean Americans?


Hadn't thought of it by country.
Who will you miss?


Edit:Who in the Top 50 will you miss on the PGA Tour?


Louis Oosthuisen-so I stand corrected-a staple in Majors but we'll see him still in Majors so we really haven't lost anything- has zero wins on America soil on the PGA Tour. Though he's personable and the Open in 2010 is the world's biggest event (IMHO)so I count that as a loss for the tour.
Anser's is world #20, but has just one PGA Tour win so it's hard to say the Tour would miss him but he has game.
Then DJ, but was never sure if he liked golf, and hasn't won in over two 1/2 years in the US.
So I will concede three that are still relevant(Top 50) that I didn' want to see go away. Na, Brooks, Reed,Bryson-fingernails on a chalkboard to me.


Inside the Top 50 that's all I can think of. Talor Gooch was a very strong up and comer, but nobody ever knew who he was and now he's gone. Seems odd to me.
Probably a loss but nobody knew him anyway so what's to miss?


Of course the floodgates may well open and this post may not age well.

« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 02:05:10 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2022, 01:46:59 PM »
Do you have to personally like a player to find them
compelling to watch? It was tough to find supporters for Tiger after he dinged up the Escalade but that didnít stop people from watching him play. You can parse it any way you want but the idea that losing DeChambeau, Koepka and DJ doesnít have any effect on the PGA Tour is laughable.



jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2022, 02:18:02 PM »
Do you have to personally like a player to find them
compelling to watch? It was tough to find supporters for Tiger after he dinged up the Escalade but that didnít stop people from watching him play. You can parse it any way you want but the idea that losing DeChambeau, Koepka and DJ doesnít have any effect on the PGA Tour is laughable.


It depends upon what fans follow them to LIV at the expense of the PGA Tour.
Did anybody not watch the Canadian Open or the US Open because of LIV?


The first LIV event was a joke, won by a guy who hasn't won in 6 plus years.
Meanwhile the above mentioned events were excellent.
LIV roster was also poorly represented at the US Open.


A surly Brooks competing on an exhibition tour(If he can't get motivated for a PGA Tour event, how does he do it for 48 man 54 hole shotgun?-There are 6 players on LIV outside the world 1000) doesn't really move the needle, and eventually new stars from Korn Ferry wil be created by their competition and success on the PGA Tour.
Playing less and spending "more time with family"(what a crock of BS) doesn't make players better or more competitive and Majors will be a huge leap from 54 hole 2 pm shotguns, so I look for LIV players to expand upon their recent performance at the US Open ;) .


Edit-I just read his announcement-completely forgot he was world #1 at one time.
It happens, and that's kind've my point.


All that said, if LIV players start cleaning up in majors, it is a death knell for the PGA Tour.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 02:23:24 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2022, 02:32:11 PM »
Do you have to personally like a player to find them
compelling to watch? It was tough to find supporters for Tiger after he dinged up the Escalade but that didnít stop people from watching him play. You can parse it any way you want but the idea that losing DeChambeau, Koepka and DJ doesnít have any effect on the PGA Tour is laughable.


It depends upon what fans follow them to LIV at the expense of the PGA Tour.
Did anybody not watch the Canadian Open or the US Open because of LIV?


The first LIV event was a joke, won by a guy who hasn't won in 6 plus years.
Meanwhile the above mentioned events were excellent.
LIV roster was also poorly represented at the US Open.


A surly Brooks competing on an exhibition tour(If he can't get motivated for a PGA Tour event, how does he do it for 48 man 54 hole shotgun?-There are 6 players on LIV outside the world 1000) doesn't really move the needle, and eventually new stars from Korn Ferry wil be created by their competition and success on the PGA Tour.
Playing less and spending "more time with family"(what a crock of BS) doesn't make players better or more competitive and Majors will be a huge leap from 54 hole 2 pm shotguns, so I look for LIV players to expand upon their recent performance at the US Open ;) .


The migration to LIV isnít over and that one tournament isnít sufficient to handicap interest going forward. Iím thinking that the joke may end up being on the PGA Tour most especially when you get an LIV player that wins a major.








Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back