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Rob Marshall

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"I used to get pissed at blowing leads until I quit having them" John Kavanaugh


Bruce Katona

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2022, 09:24:11 AM »
Good for him!  I'm wondering who else will jump over before the next event here Stateside?




A bit more gravity and inertia for the PGA Tour to digest and see what the next move may be.


Heck, this is much more entertaining watching what may occur next than most statewide or national elections! 




John Blain

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2022, 09:25:48 AM »
https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/34124761/brooks-koepka-becomes-latest-star-golfer-leave-pga-tour-liv-golf-series-sources-confirm

Not a surprise the way he was talking at Brookline. Good riddance.
By the way- Has anyone noticed that not one player who is leaving to join the LIV has been playing particularly well on the PGA Tour? 

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2022, 09:34:04 AM »
Who is now and or will be hurt by this in the future? I don't want to make light of this in the face of corporate carnage.


If the top 125 eligible players still get a tour card I see this as nothing but a win/win for professional golfers and those who strive to earn a living in the industry.

cary lichtenstein

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2022, 09:58:58 AM »
Lived Chicago, now Jupiter, Fl, was a 4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 3 back, wrist, shoulder surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, I don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2022, 10:00:10 AM »
I cant see how this finishes any different than more money to less players... and eventually less professional players making a living from golf. It might get time to get there, but it will.


There is no other possible response by the PGA Tour and from sponsor reaction.


When the Saudis pull the plug, sooner or later, then economics of professional will get outright nasty. But it will not be Micklelson's (and the rest of the oldies) problem.




Ben Hollerbach

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2022, 10:12:07 AM »
I'm waiting to see what happens with the DP World Tour. With as much business as they do in the middle east, I don't expect them to take a stance of banning LIV players. Thus if LIV players take up membership on the DP World Tour, can continue to collect OWGR points, and qualify for majors, the movement of talent from the PGA Tour to the DP World Tour could be swift.

Then the deciding factor is going to be the PGA Tour's TV contracts and their field quality clauses. If the PGA Tour is unable to fill quality fields they may find themselves hat in hand and beholden to the demand of the players.

Mike Hendren

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2022, 11:16:46 AM »
By definition a professional plays for money - period.  That said Iíve never been a fan of the defectors and wouldnít walk across the street to have a beer with any of them.  Iíll support LIV when Lee Buck Trevino joins. 
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2022, 11:19:39 AM »
I read a shocking stat today that went something like: 


Of the last 21 major championships, 9 have been one by current LIV players.


9..!!!


43%.


Majors define and punctuate any narrative in professional golf. Period.


Sure, a couple of those are from Sergio and Phil who are on their own "back 9".


But, still....I bet the PGA Tour's sphincter is puckered a bit tighter this week.

Steve Lang

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2022, 11:20:58 AM »
 8)  Unicorns and Disruptors glorified and bashed, in the social media feeds... feeling little or no pain.. letting others pick up the pieces and rebuild a structure because we like structure to our lives...


... this is something out of a Vonnegut Novel


got to go hit a ball with a stick or something conforming
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

JLahrman

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2022, 11:59:41 AM »
I read a shocking stat today that went something like: 


Of the last 21 major championships, 9 have been one by current LIV players.


9..!!!


43%.


Majors define and punctuate any narrative in professional golf. Period.


Sure, a couple of those are from Sergio and Phil who are on their own "back 9".


But, still....I bet the PGA Tour's sphincter is puckered a bit tighter this week.


Yeah I'm not a fan of LIV, but back in February it was supposed to be DOA.


But now it's attracted quite a few name players. At first it was just Dustin Johnson was the only real name, and it was "are we really going to miss Kevin Na?" along with a lot of 40-something and young guys.


Now we've got Koepka, Reed, DeChambeau, and other prominent guys defecting. Ancer (currently ranked #20) is also supposedly about to join (I'll edit the comment if he doesn't join LIV, but the rumors haven't been wrong thus far). Say what you want about how they've done at the majors this year, or how they're not well like on Tour, whatever. This is obviously a bigger issue than the PGA Tour was expecting it to be.

PPallotta

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2022, 12:02:23 PM »
It's a shifting away from the United States as the epicenter of professional golf, led by an Australian, backed by Middle East money, with events in Europe and East Asia, and featuring-and-providing-more-opportunities-for golfers from around the world -- more like tennis and soccer and skiing and formula one autoracing than like the national league football. I don't know if it was inevitable or even desireable (from a fan standpoint) but in retrospect it's not all that surprising; the American golf tour did not become not *the* tour by some divine right or rule of law, though it's sure been acting that way for a very long time.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 12:16:47 PM by PPallotta »

Daryl David

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2022, 12:18:59 PM »
PGA tour just announced a new 8 event no cut series of tournaments for the top money winners with huge purses.


Gee, sounds a lot like the LIV. I guess Phil was right. Supporting the LIV would force the PGA Tour to change and begin to reward top players. Market forces in action. Fascinating to watch.

PPallotta

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2022, 12:28:18 PM »
Fascinating indeed, on many fronts.
If the top golfers play these 8 tournaments, plus the majors, plus the 3-4 historic stops / their sponsor's events (eg Riviera, RBC Heritage) that's their 15. What about the 30 other tour stops, and all the money they raised for charity that was ostensibly a key driver/component of the tour's rules and structures?



Ben Hollerbach

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2022, 12:28:40 PM »
PGA tour just announced a new 8 event no cut series of tournaments for the top money winners with huge purses.


Gee, sounds a lot like the LIV. I guess Phil was right. Supporting the LIV would force the PGA Tour to change and begin to reward top players. Market forces in action. Fascinating to watch.
Rumor is one of those events will be in the UAE and another in China. The more similar the PGA Tour's series it to LIV, the harder it is to pull the morality card.

PPallotta

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2022, 12:51:57 PM »
Yeah, the feds hounded and condemned the mob for decades over activities like loan sharking and the numbers racket, but now we got credit cards at 22% interest and legalized gambling across the country. So I suppose it wasn't really moral outrage at work back then, but plain old fashioned envy instead! 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 12:53:38 PM by PPallotta »

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2022, 01:00:01 PM »
Not a surprise the way he was talking at Brookline. Good riddance.
By the way- Has anyone noticed that not one player who is leaving to join the LIV has been playing particularly well on the PGA Tour?
Well the players joining the LIV will play in zero events on the PGA tour as they have been banned.  So there's that.


If you mean the majors, we have had exactly one event so far since the LIV tour began and I agree that none of the LIV players played well.  Even prior to the first LIV event, how many of the players who have gone to the LIV tour played in the Canadian Open or other recent tour events?

Dan_Callahan

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2022, 01:06:30 PM »
Has the PGA Tour ever played the "moral" card? If they have, I missed it. I think the Tour's stance has always been based on a desire to crush competition. I think they are smart enough to know that if they start making the morals argument, they will quickly get blown up fr the double standard. They are trying to protect their product, which is certainly fair. But as with anything in business, when your competition has a bigger wallet than you do, it's really tough to survive. They are pinning their PR campaign on history, legacy and tradition, because at this point that's all they've got. And it's clearly tugging at the heartstrings of some (Rory I think has been brilliant on this). But is it any surprise that for a guy like DJ or Brooks, money means more to them than history or legacy? And that's not a judgment in any way. It just is what it is. And the PGA Tour players who have remained based on their desire to "play against the best" might be forced to rethink that if more of "the best" jump ship. This time next year, the top of the LIV lineup might be just as talented and decorated as the top of the Tour roster.

Paul Jones

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2022, 01:16:11 PM »
I am curious to see what happens to the DP Tour, especially since they have been so quite on this issue.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Mike Rost

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2022, 01:16:51 PM »
Copying my question from another chain as more on point here...Does anyone understand the relationship with the Asian Tour through the ownership stake and how that impacts invitations to the WGC events?  I've been wondering if a possible end state of all this is the LIV players becoming Asian Tour members and then ultimately having some Asian Tour events conveniently located in the weeks before/after LIV events.

Brian_Ewen

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2022, 01:20:45 PM »
Was there really a need to start yet another thread, to spout the same nonsense?

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2022, 01:22:05 PM »
Personally I canít image playing in more than one professional golf tournament a month. 8 events and 4 majors seems to about work out. These guys donít need another tour.

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2022, 01:27:56 PM »
Was there really a need to start yet another thread, to spout the same nonsense?


1. Given 20+ responses in a 4 hour period....YES


2. Given that many of us do not lurk here daily absorbing every piece of misc. drivel...then YES


3. Given that you, sir, are not the content arbiter, then YES.


Did that answer your question?

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Koepka to LIV
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2022, 01:28:57 PM »
Was there really a need to start yet another thread, to spout the same nonsense?


We have an outstanding thread in the archives about Michelle Wei. Iíll be sure to pull that up when she becomes part of the LIV family.


If JT signs will his dad lose his PGA status?

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