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Adam G

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2022, 09:24:17 PM »
One last thought:
I was on site Thursday-Saturday and spent Sunday on my couch. I thought NBC did a very poor job showing the topography and beauty of the course (and spotlighting anything beyond the history of the course). I realize it's hard to capture that on TV, but to those who think it is a boring monotonous course I bet you would change your tune if you saw it in person.

Carl Rogers

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2022, 11:46:22 PM »
My monutous comment concerns the thick rough every where.


Notice how a wild tee shot into the gallery leaves a matted down but very playable lie, but a slightly errant tee shot that meanders into the rough is severely penalized.  Happens every USGA event.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Sean_A

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2022, 05:32:01 AM »
My monutous comment concerns the thick rough every where.


Notice how a wild tee shot into the gallery leaves a matted down but very playable lie, but a slightly errant tee shot that meanders into the rough is severely penalized.  Happens every USGA event.

Wasn't there an Open, maybe Ryder Cup where the crowd was kept further back from fairways so the rough didn't get trampled?

Though, I don't really see a problem. Players can knowingly use the trampled area as extended fairway. It's the same for all.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2022:

PCCraig

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2022, 09:37:06 AM »
I thought the greens were kept way too soft over the week, but overall it appeared the classic golf course played terrifically without all of the tricked up features and mowing lines needed at Merion in 2013.


I'll say it again, outside of local politics, how the heck can the USGA keep the Open away from Brookline for longer than every 10-15 years?
H.P.S.

Jeff Schley

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2022, 09:43:24 AM »
Kudos for TCC shining this past week. The greens to me really shined and were very fair speed wise, albeit fast of course. The several blind shots added intrigue as did the 100 yard or 3 and drivable par 4. Good variety combined with narrow fairways it was a thorough test. If there is one area that lacks a bit is it one greens to run up shots. Iím sure someone has a stat for how many you can / canít, but the greens were perched, had bunkers, rough or even water it seemed that aspect.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Jason Topp

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2022, 10:53:01 AM »
Seemed like the best US Open venue in many years.  Classic features, quirk, varied playing lengths, history and a traditional US Open type challenge.  It stood in stark contrast to some recent classic venues such as Shinnecock(greens seemed too fast for slopes) and Merion (interest choked out of the course).


The play had a nice combination of people trying to hang on and people making birdies. 

Tom_Doak

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2022, 11:02:25 AM »
If there is one area that lacks a bit is it one greens to run up shots. Iím sure someone has a stat for how many you can / canít, but the greens were perched, had bunkers, rough or even water it seemed that aspect.


Well the title of the thread is about it being an *American* golf course.


Maybe this illustrates that not all great courses [especially in the USA] are built for run-up approach shots.

Adam Lawrence

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2022, 11:54:52 AM »
The irony of TTC as a great 'American' course is that G. Herbert Windeler, who was greens chairman for many years (and USGA president in 1903/4), and was one of the two men who was instrumental in expanding the golf course in 1905, was English -- born in London, moved to Boston in his twenties and returned back across the Atlantic on many occasions -- to the extent that he was a founding committee member at Le Touquet in France in 1903.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

cary lichtenstein

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #58 on: June 20, 2022, 01:20:37 PM »
I thought the tournament was terrific. I loved all the quirky wedge shots around the greens, really shows whose the most creative player unless the winner hits 17 of 18 greens, OMG.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Niall C

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2022, 06:00:53 PM »
Cary


I'm not sure I'd call the wedge shots "quirky". I don't think I've seen a tournament with so many instances of a player on the edge of the green chipping and seeing the ball go off the other side. There was some good shots for sure but also a lot of hit and hope out of that rough.


Niall

jeffwarne

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #60 on: June 20, 2022, 06:24:30 PM »
I thought the setup was great-a retro throwback old school US Open.
The slope and tilt on the greens was fantastic and created a variety of speeds when putting, rather than the same old fast both directions we see on super modern tiered greens with minimal slope around hole placements.
The weather cooperated with cool temperature allowing firm/fast surfaces.


My ONLY(minor) quibble was the tightness/shortness of the turf.
I've never seen so many chunked, or poorly controlled wedges from fairways by players of this level.True prescision is a must with such severely designed/maintained greens and precise contact was dicey.
The fairways continue to become the hazards ::) ::) ,a trend I'm just seeing more and more of what and to what end? I mean if elite pros struggle for predictable contact, what are the rest of us going to do?
and it's very hard for a ball to stay on a sidehill lie, eventually finding a flattish spot or finding friction in the rough.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tom Bacsanyi

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #61 on: June 20, 2022, 10:37:12 PM »
Awesome venue, great tournament. My only beef was the 2nd hole, which looked dumb and played dumb. I get that it's supposed to be hard, but that Par 4 to a Par 3 setup was contrived at best. Fortunately it came early in the round so it was quickly forgotten.
Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

John Kirk

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #62 on: June 20, 2022, 11:31:05 PM »
I enjoyed the tournament immensely.  Three young lions fighting for the prize with power and finesse.  Then it was down to two, with both making big plays down the stretch.

My minor criticism of the golf course is that I thought it profoundly favored the player who hits a right-to-left tee shot.  Many holes turned left with a bunker guarding the corner.  Were there any dogleg right holes?  The pros mostly hit a fade these days, probably due to the hot golf ball which goes 300+ without hitting the big draw, which in my opinion is a harder shot to execute and control.

I think this helps explain why Fitzpatrick and Zalatoris ended up on top.  They both hit the (little) draw with relative ease.  Scheffler tied for second despite the fact he fades it.

Final comment.  How about Zalatoris responding to the bogey on #15 by hitting 6-iron 210 yards to 6 feet and making birdie on #16?  I thought that was about as good as tournament golf ever gets.
 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 11:41:25 AM by John Kirk »

Mike Sweeney

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #63 on: June 21, 2022, 06:21:44 AM »
I thought the greens were kept way too soft over the week, but overall it appeared the classic golf course played terrifically without all of the tricked up features and mowing lines needed at Merion in 2013.



Pat,


My son said something similar in that he thought TCC presented similar to the 2009 Bethpage Black US Open that we saw, and now similar to what we play - US Open old school rough at BB.


This made me think about Mike Davis. The US Open did become too much of his show, and it seems like it is a good thing they moved on. I did not watch all weekend, and saw Mike When just the one time. He was not talking about the course and its presentation...


Anyone - Who set up the course?
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If weíve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. Weíre no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Matthew Rose

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #64 on: June 21, 2022, 08:39:21 AM »
I'm fascinated by the (Composite) 13th. Is there another example in championship golf anywhere of two holes being combined into one?

Also shortening a par four into a par three is pretty unusual. The only other example I know of this being done is in Australia at Victoria GC (Hole #1).
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

John Blain

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #65 on: June 21, 2022, 09:21:54 AM »
I thought the greens were kept way too soft over the week, but overall it appeared the classic golf course played terrifically without all of the tricked up features and mowing lines needed at Merion in 2013.



Pat,


My son said something similar in that he thought TCC presented similar to the 2009 Bethpage Black US Open that we saw, and now similar to what we play - US Open old school rough at BB.


This made me think about Mike Davis. The US Open did become too much of his show, and it seems like it is a good thing they moved on. I did not watch all weekend, and saw Mike When just the one time. He was not talking about the course and its presentation...


Anyone - Who set up the course?
The course was set-up by the USGA team of John Bodenhamer, Jeff Hall and Jason Gore and from all accounts they did a fantastic job. The players seemed to really enjoy the course and set-up.

Adam G

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #66 on: June 21, 2022, 09:31:26 AM »
John Bodenhamer set it up with Jeff Hall and Jason Gore. I saw Jason out there setting up a hole location (they had two teams doing it). The agronomist Daren Brevard also played an important role.


My sense is they could have gone more aggressive with the firmness on Thursday-Friday but for the afternoon wave the course would have been too on the edge. Its more feasibly to have a firm and fast setup on a weekend when the course only has to play that way for 8-9 hours rather than 15.


Setup wise I thought they did a great job. I would have loved to have seen a hole location further back on 3, on the back shelf on 4, or closer to the false front on 8 but otherwise they did a great job. 11 in particular played beautifully to those 4 hole locations. Watching the pros trajectory choices on that hole was mesmerizing.


The flow of the Open course worked great. 2 is not an interesting par 4 for these guys, and then needed the members tee for one of the main gates in. 13 worked nicely but could have been more of a bear. They were toying with the idea of using the forward tee on 14 champ / 8 Open which would have added 50 yards to the hole and really forced them to hit a hard draw with a driver. They abandoned this and used the 440 tee due to crowd flow and because the guys would be distracted by the hiss of hearing tee balls on 8 go above their head. Going from 7 main to 14 main and then on to 11 main after 9 prim worked really well and balanced the 9s.


I honestly thought the worst hole for the pros was 9. I'd love to see them rework the fairway a bit (not sure if its mowing lines moving left or re-contouring) so that with firm fairways they would have an incentive to at least think about flirting with the water. Nobody thought it was worth going anywhere near it because anything even a hint over the big mound in the fairway was getting wet. Fix that, expand the 12th green a bit to the left to add additional hole locations, and bring the Open back ASAP!

Kalen Braley

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #67 on: June 21, 2022, 05:42:01 PM »
Curious about the 8th hole in the Composite course for the Open.  I'd have to think the very short fairway/fringe setup was just for US Open week?  Can't imagine the margin for staying on that green or rolling off 40+ yards is like that for daily play....

Dan_Callahan

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #68 on: June 21, 2022, 08:34:02 PM »
Curious about the 8th hole in the Composite course for the Open.  I'd have to think the very short fairway/fringe setup was just for US Open week?  Can't imagine the margin for staying on that green or rolling off 40+ yards is like that for daily play....


Iíve played there about 10 times over the years, and 8 has always played like that. Maybe not quite as slick, but a shot that doesnít clear the front edge rolls down the hill. I played a few months before the US Am, and that area at the bottom of the hill was roped off. If you rolled into it, you got a free drop. Otherwise, that spot would be a minefield of divots going into the tournament. I would assume they did the same hearing into the Open. Even so, I watched a bunch of players who were forced to hit finesse wedge shots out of sand-filled, which is never much fun.

Adam G

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #69 on: June 21, 2022, 09:37:30 PM »
Agree. Course was presented more or less as the members play it when the weather is dry. The only mowing line that changed was 13 which was brought in a few yards on the right.

Mike Sweeney

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #70 on: June 22, 2022, 05:43:55 AM »
Agree. Course was presented more or less as the members play it when the weather is dry. The only mowing line that changed was 13 which was brought in a few yards on the right.


Thanks for the setup comments. That course is too hard for me! I always loved Ryan Farrow's coverage of Bethpage's "shrinking fairways":


As promised, here is an aerial comparison of Bethpage Black between 1953 & 2017. The golf course changed very little between the opening in the 1930's & 1953. Here are the numbers: Avg. Fairway Width: 1953 = 52 yds  Today = 30 yds Fairway Acreage: 1953 = 46ac   Today = 18.6ac


https://twitter.com/FarrowGolf/status/962040561103286273?s=20&t=x3kAuBrJQGBRHlPo8eMwAg
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If weíve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. Weíre no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

AChao

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #71 on: July 06, 2022, 02:30:49 AM »
Maybe it's THE Great American Parkland - Links Hybrid course ...

Ronald Montesano

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #72 on: July 06, 2022, 08:28:34 AM »
Kudos to Arnol Yajnick, way back on page one of this thread, for singling Matt Fitzpatrick out.

Was the advance of four amateurs to the final 36 holes an anomaly, or does it say something about the playability of the course? None of the four is a Keep your eye on this one amateur, and one is a mid-amateur.



Maybe for 2022
~Eden Valley
~Hillview
~Pinehurst (NY)
~Kis 'N Greens
~Pine Meadows
~18 Mile Creek
~Greenwood
~Shawnee
~Leroy
~

archie_struthers

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Re: US Open Week: Is The Country Club The Great *American* Golf Course?
« Reply #73 on: July 06, 2022, 09:00:52 AM »
 8)


Thought the course was great and truly enjoyed the Open. Hoping to visit some day soon as the history and architecture both stand out for me!

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