[Jim_Michaels]

...and should we care?

Here is a list of their Best New Private winners:

1984: Honors
1985: Loxahatchee
1986: Troon (AZ)
1987: Wade Hampton
1988: Black Diamond
1989: Shadow Glen
1990: Shadow Creek
1991: GC of Georgia
1992: Atlantic
1993: Colleton River
1994: Old Overton
1995: Sand Hills
1996: Estancia
1997: Sanctuary
1998: Nantucket
1999: Victoria National
2000: Olde Farm
2001: Kinloch
2002: Briar's Creek

How many of these winners have really stood the test of time?

[Jeff_Mingay]

I don't know what this year's eligibility requirements are, but if Friar's Head doesn't win we'll have to question the validity of Golf Digest's "Best New" awards (yet again!).

[Jim Franklin]

Jeff -

It all depends if enough panelists made it out to Friars Head. They did not accomodate panelists as they did not care to be included one way or the other.

Jim -

I have not played all of the "Best New", but the ones I did are still pretty good in my book.

[THuckaby2]

Jeff:

Friar's Head was listed as a nominated course for GD... So if it doesn't make the Best New Private at all, the explanation would be that not enough raters saw it. I don't know what the minimum number is.  But given they tell us in our instructions that accomodations will NOT be made for raters, that if you happen to play it as a guest of a member then they are ok with you submitting a rating, but they WON'T allow access outside of that... well... it wouldn't surprise me if it falls short of the numbers required.

Which from all accounts also won't concern Mr. Bakst or the members one iota.

Which is really very cool....  

TH

[Alibowitz]

Anybody care for a wager? I have no information on this at all, but I am willing to bet twenty bucks that enough raters got to Friar's Head for it to win. Don't underestimate the resourcefulness of those guys!

[Robert Emmons]

For FH, I do believe enough people, and the right people saw it this year...RHE

[THuckaby2]

Hey guys, I'm not doubting that enough raters got there.  I'm just speculating that it's possible that not enough did, given the attitude and the restrictions.  We'll know if it doesn't make the list at all.

TH

[Matt_Ward]

Gentlemen as much as there is interest in the "Best Private" category I would wager a fair share that Black Mesa -- the gem of a design in New Mexcio bagged the "Best Affordable" title.

As much as some talk about the private side the real issue for many people is access and affordability. Black Mesa has that and a truly stunning design by Baxter Spann.

[Kelly_Blake_Moran]

FH being the declared preference on GCA, or the clear favorite by many here, but how many of you willing to declare them the winner, and ready to pounce GD if it is not the winner have actually played, not just walked, but played the course.  Is there a dark horse out there that might actually be a worthy competitor?  How can you declare it the best if you have not played many of the new courses?  Since when did ignoring official recognition by your peers become cool?  As unseemly as blatent promotion is, is it not equally unseemly to think of yourself as above judgement, criticism, and recognition?  This all seems very distorted.

[THuckaby2]

Matt:

Black Mesa surely got the ratings from me to justify Best New affordable, as did Rustic Canyon last year.

But this is a funny game... with a LARGE number of participants... as you know.  Who knows how this will come out.

TH

[THuckaby2]

FH being the declared preference on GCA, or the clear favorite by many here, but how many of you willing to declare them the winner, and ready to pounce GD if it is not the winner have actually played, not just walked, but played the course.  Is there a dark horse out there that might actually be a worthy competitor?  How can you declare it the best if you have not played many of the new courses?  Since when did ignoring official recognition by your peers become cool?  As unseemly as blatent promotion is, is it not equally unseemly to think of yourself as above judgement, criticism, and recognition?  This all seems very distorted.

Kelly:  I just find it cooler than blatant pandering for recognition, that's all.  It's a lesser of two evils kinda thing.

And I haven't seen the course myself.  From the reactions of others, it would seem that FH is very well-received.  Of course it sure wouldn't surprise me if it does not get Best New Private - you're right - there are plenty of other possibilities for that - I'm just speculating as to why it might not appear on the list of honored courses AT ALL... because from people's reviews, it seems hard to believe that if enough raters do see it, it won't at least make the top 10, or 5, or however many GD lists.

TH

[GD Rater]

Black Mesa should win in a landslide! In fact, I think it's a cut above Friar's Head!!

[Matt_Ward]

Huck:

Just trust me on Black Mesa -- I have a sense for these type of things!

P.S. For those so inclined -- I would be most interested in how the top three positions come out in the "best private."
Even if FH does win I wonder if the next two will be Dallas National and Black Rock. The smoke from the chimmey will make for an interesting result.

[THuckaby2]

Matt:

OK, I trust you.  

And when that happens, damn that will be a well-deserved honor for Baxter and one and all involved with the course...

I just was very surprised at how relatively poorly Wild Horse fared, so I'm skittish about making predictions.  But you sure do know better than I do... so 'nuff said.

TH

[George Pazin]

I thought Black Mesa was more than $50. Did our rate reflect the two trips round?

The Rawls Course was less than $50 for sure - it gets my vote. It'd get my vote for any award, of course.

[Matt_Ward]

George:

My understanding is that The Rawls Course is not eligible for '03 -- but will be for '04.

[HamiltonBHearst]

Mr.huckaby

what makes you think Mr. Bakst and the FH members do not care what outsiders think?  Just interested as you can always market without marketing and I would suspect many of the members do care.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Don't underestimate the resourcefulness of those guys!

Albowitz, Which guys? If you are refering to Friars Head, I would hazard a guess, and this is a guess you can take to the bank--that they are hoping they don't get it.

In fact, I agree with Matt Ward, Black Mesa should get it. Baxter Spann deserves it. So please Ron Whitten, I know your reading--give the award to Black Mesa.

[THuckaby2]

Hamilton:

My impression just comes from what I read on here, and it has been said by others in here that Mr. Bakst does not care about ratings and rankings, nor do the members.  I have no knowledge beyond that, which is why I wrote "by all accounts."

It also wouldn't surprise me if the members DO care.  It's just human nature to want your course honored.  But if they didn't, well... that to me is kinda cool, in an elisit, we're too cool to care kinda way.  

TH

[THuckaby2]

Tommy:

Friar's Head and Black Mesa aren't competing with each other... one being private, the other public.

Of course you know this, but it bears repeating.  

TH

[Tommy_Naccarato]

And yes, Kelly is right, I have never seen Black Mesa and I'm unqualified to make such a request, but I have seen Friars Head and wish that it go unspoiled by needless reckless antics of best anything.

Please give it to Black Mesa!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Hammy, I think its just the opposite. I don't think they care one iota. But that's my opinion.

[Steve Lapper]

Hammy,

      As I personally know near a dozen members and believe it is absolutely no stretch of misrepresentation to say....THEY DON'T CARE A DAMN.

     All that I know are immensely(and unanimously) happy with the course, its people, the nature of its temporary facilities and its financial strength necessary to carry it to fruition.

Kelly,

    I can't speak to the others and frankly don't care much about the ratings, but the last time I palyed something this good, this early it was Pacific Dunes or even Sand Hills.

[THuckaby2]

And yes, Kelly is right, I have never seen Black Mesa and I'm unqualified to make such a request, but I have seen Friars Head and wish that it go unspoiled by needless reckless antics of best anything.

Please give it to Black Mesa!

Tommy - your point is understood.  But just use another example besides Black Mesa, will ya?  They are in different categories even beyond those that exist in your mind...  

TH

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom,
I didn't know that. I was just figuring that Matt scooped Golf Digest again! (which would be awesome and impressive now that he is a Golfweek rater!)

O.K. give it to another Best New Private then--give it to a Fazio course or Jim Engh. Somebody who can use it.

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