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Sam Kestin

  • Karma: +0/-0
This is more a strategy/tactics question than it is a question of right/wrong or an invitation to pass judgment on who has done what here. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the choices various people have made vis a vie the upcoming LIV Golf events, I am curious what the roundtable here thinks about what the PGA TOUR should do next.


The best piece of leverage against the players (to me anyway) seems to be major championship participation and it doesn't look to me like the PGA TOUR is going to get the kind of support from the majors that they might like in this situation.



If you were Commissioner Monahan...what would be your next moves?

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Kill the Champions Tour and put the money into purses.
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Jim O’Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Kill the Champions Tour and put the money into purses.


Man, they can't do that to those guys. Many of them helped grow the tour to what it is, and set the stage for the trampoline effect when Tiger came along and purses exploded.


What would become of those guys? Just leave them with nowhere to compete? Back to club pro jobs?

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Champions is an interesting animal now
What Ive heard   Many could be challenged


Purses Hugely subsidized from PGA tour


Originally, many players really needed the champions tour. Pensions were not much if anything for the founding players.  Competition was one thing, but the income was a big thing for many.
Now we are in an age that many of the “exempt” players have substantial pensions and should be pretty secure. 
It’s a huge opportunity for guys like me who have nothing, but the vast majority are fully vested and should be pretty solid .


Some “names” just don’t need to play all the time, and names drive revenues, like it or not.


I do t want to see it go away, but a significant restructure could loom if LIV has an impact

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Ditch the year round schedule.
  • Ditch the Fed Ex system
  • Drastically increase the purses and points in whatever new system you come up with and prioritize the  traditionally prominent Tour events like the former Crosby, former Hope, San Diego, LA, Phoenix, Colonial, Nelson, Hilton Head, Bay Hill, Memorial, Canadian and a few others and make them the backbone of the tour and the ones that 90% of the top players will play.
  • Otherwise greatly reduce the number of events and make the tournaments that do survive but aren't part of the above rota low priority and low points.
  • Reinvigorate the WGC tournaments that they have let die on the vine and make them true world tournaments. Have one in early January in Australia, have one in Asia in the fall and have one in Continental Europe. Incentivize players to play in them by having high purses and making it a requirement to play in a certain number of them.
  • After the Memorial there really isn't an important non-major tournament for the rest of the year.  Re-invigorate the Western Open and move it around the Midwest to prominent golf clubs.
  • Move the match play tournament to early August and [play it at an architecturally interesting golf course.
  • Since they are no longer the only game in town the Tour will need to set itself up so that the top players are facing off against each other much more often.  That means fewer tournaments but more money on the line in the ones that survive.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
What would become of those guys? Just leave them with nowhere to compete? Back to club pro jobs?
Who cares? Almost nobody cares what happens to them NOW.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Monahan should tell any course currently on the tour circuit that if they host a LIV event they will lose their PGA tournament.  He should encourage his tour sponsors to stop doing business with SA. The tour should divest any investments they have with companies doing biz with SA....and they should tell ban those players that play on the LIV tour for one year from all PGA events.
He's nuttier than a squirrel turd.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
He should encourage his tour sponsors to stop doing business with SA. The tour should divest any investments they have with companies doing biz with SA....
So, like, every company?

Welcome to the PGA Tour stop at Riviera, sponsored by San Clemente's own… "Pete's Homemade Donuts."
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0

Monahan should tell any course currently on the tour circuit that if they host a LIV event they will lose their PGA tournament.  He should encourage his tour sponsors to stop doing business with SA. The tour should divest any investments they have with companies doing biz with SA....and they should tell ban those players that play on the LIV tour for one year from all PGA events.

[/size]
[/size]Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, Oct. 6, 2021, — FedEx Express, a subsidiary of FedEx Corp. (NYSE: FDX) and the world’s largest express transportation company, has announced its transition to a direct-serve presence in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to meet the country’s growing international shipping demands. The company will invest more than SAR 1.5 billion (US $400 million) into the Saudi economy over the next 10 years through talent management and local operations and infrastructure. This investment will reaffirm the company’s commitment to the country’s non-oil economic growth, in line with Saudi Arabia’s Vision 2030 goals, and the ‘National Industrial Development and Logistics Program’ which seeks to increase non-oil exports to more than SAR 1 trillion (approximately US $266 billion)
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
David, thanks for reminding us of the real world.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
 8)  I GUESS Monahan would first have to announce his intention to stop eating at McDonald's, 5 Guys, KFC, Hardee's, Domino's, & Subway ... to name a few company's doing business in KSA, then hold a summit with all the tour stop sponsors and have a straw poll on their favored options and gauge how long till his retirement...
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Apparently you all have forgotten about the apartheid regime in South Africa and the divestment movement..


Oh well...The thing is, a capitalist will climb into bed with anyone if there's a nickel to be made.  Henry Ford, old man Kennedy...Phil, DJ, Trump, they don't care who is signing the check.  They all possessed about an ounce moral fortitude.
He's nuttier than a squirrel turd.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
First ban the LIV players for two years from PGA Tour events. One year or a fine isn't enough to make an impact.
Then make the TPC a fifth major by upping the prize money only open to PGA Tour members. The LPGA did it.
Make the FEDEX playoffs more lucrative so no player would want to miss the PGA Tour events leading up to it.
Make PGA Tour membership for a certain number of years a requirement for entry into the Hall of Fame.
 8)
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 12:25:50 AM by Tim Leahy »
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Apparently you all have forgotten about the apartheid regime in South Africa and the divestment movement..


Oh well...The thing is, a capitalist will climb into bed with anyone if there's a nickel to be made.  Henry Ford, old man Kennedy...Phil, DJ, Trump, they don't care who is signing the check.  They all possessed about an ounce moral fortitude.


Apparently the communists will climb into bed with Saudi Arabia as well since China is SA's largest trading partner by far with 20% of SA's exports going to China.
https://oec.world/en/profile/country/sau

"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
First ban the LIV players for two years from PGA Tour events. One year or a fine isn't enough to make an impact.
Then make the TPC a fifth major by upping the prize money only open to PGA Tour members. The LPGA did it.
Make the FEDEX playoffs more lucrative so no player would want to miss the PGA Tour events leading up to it.
Make PGA Tour membership for a certain number of years a requirement for entry into the Hall of Fame.
 8)


I think players going to the LIV Tour won't care if they're banned, considering most have resigned.
The Tour has been trying to make people say the Players is a major since the 1970s, and it hasn't worked yet. Since when, incidentally, has the LPGA had a Players Championship?
I thought they had made the playoffs a cash cow. How many multiples of cow do you suggest?
How many years for HoF membership? (Woods got in with 24, I believe.) And since it's the World Golf Hall of Fame, what of a great European Tour player who never joined the PGA Tour? How does he get in?
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0

If you were Commissioner Monahan...what would be your next moves?


I would go to Tesla - Elon Musk, and make a deal with them. Old school fossil fuel tour vs new school electric energy tour.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
If I was Jay Monahan I'd probably do what he is doing now which is subtly, or not so subtly, threaten, cajole and bully players into staying with the PGA Tour. And if that doesn't work or a law suit prevented the continuation of that tactic then I'd quickly try and address some of the issues that have been discussed. Of course, even then the genie might already be out of the bottle and I think that is the real issue he now faces.


Niall

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +0/-1
Apparently you all have forgotten about the apartheid regime in South Africa and the divestment movement..



It was a lot easier to be "courageous" there, considering we do almost zero business in South Africa and don't need their oil.  America is really good at leading when it doesn't cost us anything.

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
I would do nothing. The LIV money is too much for some players to pass up. They were going to take it no matter what the Tour threatened. So the Tour can either throw a tantrum and lock those guys out as retribution, or they can put a smile on their face and tell them they are still welcome to play in Tour events and majors. And when Phil shows up to play Pebble or the Memorial or whatever, the Tour can profit off the increase in viewership/ticket sales.


You can’t fight an infinite bank account.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +0/-1
  • Ditch the year round schedule.
  • Ditch the Fed Ex system
  • Drastically increase the purses and points in whatever new system you come up with and prioritize the  traditionally prominent Tour events like the former Crosby, former Hope, San Diego, LA, Phoenix, Colonial, Nelson, Hilton Head, Bay Hill, Memorial, Canadian and a few others and make them the backbone of the tour and the ones that 90% of the top players will play.
  • Otherwise greatly reduce the number of events and make the tournaments that do survive but aren't part of the above rota low priority and low points.
  • Reinvigorate the WGC tournaments that they have let die on the vine and make them true world tournaments. Have one in early January in Australia, have one in Asia in the fall and have one in Continental Europe. Incentivize players to play in them by having high purses and making it a requirement to play in a certain number of them.
  • After the Memorial there really isn't an important non-major tournament for the rest of the year.  Re-invigorate the Western Open and move it around the Midwest to prominent golf clubs.
  • Move the match play tournament to early August and [play it at an architecturally interesting golf course.
  • Since they are no longer the only game in town the Tour will need to set itself up so that the top players are facing off against each other much more often.  That means fewer tournaments but more money on the line in the ones that survive.


This is probably the best list of recommendations posted, but I don't know how you square "prioritizing the traditionally prominent Tour events" with "reinvigorating the WGC events".  The LIV tour is pulling off the majority of international players, many of whom have always resented that they had to live in America in order to compete at the highest level.


Where LIV will have a problem is if they start attracting Asian sponsors and insist on holding tournaments over there; that's much less attractive to most of the players.  But that's where they might actually recoup some of their $.


The best thing that the PGA Tour can do is to defend home soil, because ultimately, the LIV tour isn't going to attract the best American players without holding half of its events in America.  That's going to put a lot of pressure on the new relationship between the PGA Tour the European tour.

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Apparently you all have forgotten about the apartheid regime in South Africa and the divestment movement..


It was a lot easier to be "courageous" there, considering we do almost zero business in South Africa and don't need their oil.  America is really good at leading when it doesn't cost us anything.
See, e.g., People's Republic of China.

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Monahan's official response:


 https://www.foxnews.com/sports/pga-tour-disciplines-golfers-liv-golf


Pretty much cut them all all off completely.  Including the guys who resigned to avoid some sanctions.
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Monahan's official response:


 https://www.foxnews.com/sports/pga-tour-disciplines-golfers-liv-golf


Pretty much cut them all all off completely.  Including the guys who resigned to avoid some sanctions.


He had no choice in the short term. The end game is what I’m interested in.

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
The focus needs to be on the majors.  If you can make very significantly more money and still compete in the majors the PGA Tour is in trouble.   


Augusta will act in their interest, which would seem to be the status quo - keep the PGA tour as it is.  The Masters is an invitational so they could most easily ban/not invite the LIV players.  This would require changing invitations for past champions.


Lobby the USGA and PGA of America to be certain that playing on the LIV tour will earn no world ranking points or whatever to help players qualify.  Review qualifications for the US Open and PGA and make changes to keep the LIV Players out.


That leaves The Open.  Again, work with them to see that keeping the PGA Tour is in their interest.  Perhaps the USGA could help. 


Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Ditch the year round schedule.
  • Ditch the Fed Ex system
  • Drastically increase the purses and points in whatever new system you come up with and prioritize the  traditionally prominent Tour events like the former Crosby, former Hope, San Diego, LA, Phoenix, Colonial, Nelson, Hilton Head, Bay Hill, Memorial, Canadian and a few others and make them the backbone of the tour and the ones that 90% of the top players will play.
  • Otherwise greatly reduce the number of events and make the tournaments that do survive but aren't part of the above rota low priority and low points.
  • Reinvigorate the WGC tournaments that they have let die on the vine and make them true world tournaments. Have one in early January in Australia, have one in Asia in the fall and have one in Continental Europe. Incentivize players to play in them by having high purses and making it a requirement to play in a certain number of them.
  • After the Memorial there really isn't an important non-major tournament for the rest of the year.  Re-invigorate the Western Open and move it around the Midwest to prominent golf clubs.
  • Move the match play tournament to early August and [play it at an architecturally interesting golf course.
  • Since they are no longer the only game in town the Tour will need to set itself up so that the top players are facing off against each other much more often.  That means fewer tournaments but more money on the line in the ones that survive.


This is probably the best list of recommendations posted, but I don't know how you square "prioritizing the traditionally prominent Tour events" with "reinvigorating the WGC events".  The LIV tour is pulling off the majority of international players, many of whom have always resented that they had to live in America in order to compete at the highest level.


Where LIV will have a problem is if they start attracting Asian sponsors and insist on holding tournaments over there; that's much less attractive to most of the players.  But that's where they might actually recoup some of their $.


The best thing that the PGA Tour can do is to defend home soil, because ultimately, the LIV tour isn't going to attract the best American players without holding half of its events in America.  That's going to put a lot of pressure on the new relationship between the PGA Tour the European tour.




Reach a deal with the LIV to co exist.
Agree to about an 8 tournament LIV after the Open..as above nothing good after The Open on tour anyway.
Promote those 8 events going world wide to TRULY enhance growing the game.
A win win. Players get paid without this stupid suspension...which just looks petty and childish..avoid Court battles and more questions from the Monopolies commission.


There is NO REASON the two cannot run together, the Tour just needs to quit being the bully in the room, shorten its schedule and allow for the players to get their pay as well.


If they done, I can see prolonged court battles and an increase in players jumping over to the LIV.


Young upcoming talent without a direct route to the tour, will relish the guaranteed income and then the Tour loses its next generation of entertainers.


The Tour will have to make drastic changes long term, IF the LIV lasts any longer that 3/5 years., and they ignore the potential of the LIV


Start giving guaranteed income at all events...minimum of 15 k for missing the cut
Restart the Q school process


STOP being the big bully, which has already killed what used to be a good Australian Tour for example.


I for one am delighted to see the PGA Tour get a taste of what they have been doing to others for decades

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