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Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #350 on: June 16, 2022, 08:27:10 AM »
Trump, sports wash, lol, he just wants the money.


YEP, THE RETAIL GOLFER'S $ ... AND A PLACE TO PLAY WHEN IN TOWN... ::)
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #351 on: June 16, 2022, 08:54:15 AM »
Steve,
You are without doubt a capital chap but does that explain why you have taken to responding on G.C.A. in upper case!!??
Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #352 on: June 16, 2022, 10:51:35 AM »
Tim,

You are in denial my friend.  Like it or not, Notre Dame is the face of the Catholic Church when it comes to sports in America and the laundry list of grievances against that organization is without end.

But they aren't alone, BYU certainly does its fair share of sports washing too, and I admit this as an alum of the University...

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #353 on: June 16, 2022, 11:23:36 AM »

So, what are those incidents of successful sport washing? I don't think any better of Saudi, Russia and China....and I don't think others do. I haven't seen evidence of successful sport washing. I see plenty evidence of all levels of society taking dirty money which has been going on since there was dirty money to be had. But again, I am sure there are cases where a country is now seen in a positive light by much of the world when if fact it still has a terrible human rights record.

Ciao


We really should set all this aside and see how things develop.  Let's not get too far into the weeds and find that the admonition of the "pot calling the kettle black" points right back at us.


I can understand why Rory and others at the top of professional golf as well as people living lavishly in their orbit (e.g. Brandel Chamblee who apparently has added a new word in his repetitive commentary- "existential") are so alarmed.  It is their platform to riches, fame, meaning, raison d'etre which is being challenged beyond their immediate control.


Google "projection" and see if it applies here.  Anyone on a lucrative Nike endorsement contract who has the gall to throw SA's human rights record at the face of the LIV Tour and its players probably falls into one of these: totally lacking in self-awareness, ignorant, or just being a common, ordinary hypocrite.


It is all about "the Benjamins" and the very natural reaction to competition which might disrupt our own pursuit of a somewhat entitled lifestyle.  Remember, money is fungible.  Do we want to put our own sources and uses under a similar microscope?


I know a few people pretty well who work in the sovereign wealth sphere in the Middle East.  To suggest that the LIV Tour is a mega loss leader for the Saudis to save face/curry favor with the increasingly selectively "liberal" West betrays a terrible combination of arrogance and naivete about how the world works.  Two things many informed, influential people in the ROW have learned are that our positions on any number or issues are situational, and unlike inflation today, transitory.


True, not every deal has to have a high IRR, but as part of an overall strategy (what perhaps Tim Martin was alluding to), the bottom line and the future are indeed the objective.  SA, unlike our own short term election-oriented government and Wall Street's quarterly report focus, has a much longer term approach.  Those in control know their strengths, threats, and opportunities.  I would not bet against their business approach nor their will to survive in what is a very illiberal time for their long time allies.


If we look at these people and their cultures derisively as inherently inferior, our "free lunch" of the past 60 years will become increasingly unsustainable, maybe even close to Chamblee's "existential".  It was not SA or Venezuela who came to the U.S. begging to sell us more oil.  It was the man who campaigned on ending the carbon economy and, to his credit, has managed to make a large down payment on that promise in 17 months who is now crawling to these unsavory regimes with his hands out.


I don't want to see a war of attrition with LIV.  Perhaps the Tour bureaucracy has superior information at their space-age headquarters to suggest that LIV won't live long.  But, I suspect, that even if LIV fails, some changes will be necessary.  Either the Tour is a meritocracy or a closed shop with a strong, well-paid staff and peripheral support organizations benefiting from the status quo to the exclusion of others who may indeed bring positive change to the game.


Nicklaus, Woods, and any number of top performers didn't enjoy playing much more than 15 tournaments annually.  Family values in that segment of society have become more important- it is as well at the country club level where fathers no longer spend all weekend at the club playing golf and cards.  Certainly there must be a way to have a more open access to the various tours throughout the world which could indeed grow the game.  Change and competition, supposedly we are all for it, unless it is disruptive at a personal level, i.e. good for everyone else. ::)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2022, 11:40:44 AM by Lou_Duran »

JohnVDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #354 on: June 16, 2022, 11:30:14 AM »
Kalen,


The thing that gets me about BYU is how the NCAA bends over backwards for them. Every year that their team or an individual qualifies for the golf championships, the club has to setup the course on Thursday with Sundayís holes and they have to go out and play by themselves.  This forces the other teams to complete their practice rounds, the grounds crew to come back at midday and setup the course, the Rules Committee to have officials fo with each player and then on Sunday they get to sit and relax while the other teams and players struggle to make the cut for Monday.


As I understand it Notre Dame also used to refuse Tokelau on Sundays but changed many years ago.


I just wish that strict Jewish, Moslem schools as well as BYU would qualify one year and watch the mess that ensued.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #355 on: June 16, 2022, 11:48:44 AM »
Kalen,

The thing that gets me about BYU is how the NCAA bends over backwards for them. Every year that their team or an individual qualifies for the golf championships, the club has to setup the course on Thursday with Sundayís holes and they have to go out and play by themselves.  This forces the other teams to complete their practice rounds, the grounds crew to come back at midday and setup the course, the Rules Committee to have officials fo with each player and then on Sunday they get to sit and relax while the other teams and players struggle to make the cut for Monday.

As I understand it Notre Dame also used to refuse Tokelau on Sundays but changed many years ago.

I just wish that strict Jewish, Moslem schools as well as BYU would qualify one year and watch the mess that ensued.


Agreed John, it is BS. 

Its also my understanding that the NCAA men's tourney changed the Final Four to a Saturday/Monday combo in large part to accommodate BYU, which made a few deep runs back in Danny Ainge's heyday.  If the BYU Women's team ever gets good they may have to do something similar as that's a Sunday/Tuesday configuration IIRC.

P.S.  I really wish the Big 12 would have put their foot down and not invited them, but with fans everywhere like ND. sports travels well for ratings and even ESPN couldn't resist to give them a football contract years ago.

JohnVDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #356 on: June 16, 2022, 11:54:42 AM »
Kalen,


Itís interesting that none of the players seem to have a problem playing on Sundays once they turned pro.  I guess if any of them do, they can go to the LIV tour.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #357 on: June 16, 2022, 01:35:11 PM »
Kalen,


Itís interesting that none of the players seem to have a problem playing on Sundays once they turned pro.  I guess if any of them do, they can go to the LIV tour.
Steve Young who wears the sacred undergarment never had a problem playing on Sundays.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #358 on: June 16, 2022, 03:20:21 PM »
Kalen,

Itís interesting that none of the players seem to have a problem playing on Sundays once they turned pro.  I guess if any of them do, they can go to the LIV tour.
Steve Young who wears the sacred undergarment never had a problem playing on Sundays.

Contradictions, hypocrisy, and exceptions abound everywhere.  You don't even know the half of it!  ;)

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #359 on: June 16, 2022, 04:35:57 PM »
Kalen,

Itís interesting that none of the players seem to have a problem playing on Sundays once they turned pro.  I guess if any of them do, they can go to the LIV tour.
Steve Young who wears the sacred undergarment never had a problem playing on Sundays.

Contradictions, hypocrisy, and exceptions abound everywhere.  You don't even know the half of it!  ;)


Oh man,
Now I canít get the thought of a hair shirt jockstrap out of my head.
Thanks, boys,
F.
Assembled in Michigan from foreign parts.

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #360 on: June 17, 2022, 11:46:30 AM »
Tim,

You are in denial my friend.  Like it or not, Notre Dame is the face of the Catholic Church when it comes to sports in America and the laundry list of grievances against that organization is without end.

But they aren't alone, BYU certainly does its fair share of sports washing too, and I admit this as an alum of the University...


Kalen,
   Once upon a time, yes, but Notre Dame is governed by a lay board while headed by a Catholic priest, John Jenkins. I'd hardly call it the face of anything these days.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #361 on: June 19, 2022, 12:16:35 PM »
It's pretty clear that the LIV US Open participants are past their prime with the exception of DJ
Lived Chicago, now Jupiter, Fl, was a 4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 3 back, wrist, shoulder surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, I don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #362 on: June 20, 2022, 02:37:23 AM »

It's pretty clear that the LIV US Open participants are past their prime with the exception of DJ

What makes you say that?

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