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Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tom Williamsen
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2022, 12:49:57 AM »
Just strong enough. Four of the top 50, 26 of the top 150 in this week's world rankings. Enough recognizable names (major winners) to get notice. A lot of European (DP World) Tour regulars Ė next week's Scandinavian Mixed will be hurt by it Ė and a couple of notable amateurs, including David Puig of Arizona State, a Spaniard, and James Piot of Michigan State, last year's U.S. Amateur winner.


Six places left. One is for Mickelson should he want it.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Jimmy Chandler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2022, 01:00:36 AM »
Not sure why he thinks it is best for his family but evidently he does.
You partially answered your own question: "Not a very strong field" + huge guaranteed money.

Terrible look for a competitor taking the $ to play an inferior field. Shack speculates it could hurt DJ's Hall of Fame chances, and it may eliminate Westwood, Poulter, McDdowell, Sergio, and Kaymer from ever getting a Ryder Cup captaincy.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2022, 02:43:52 AM »
PGA should suspend them all for the rest of the season and next years PGA Championship if they really want to make a statement. :o
Might as well start the litigation now.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2022, 02:50:02 AM »

Terrible look for a competitor taking the $ to play an inferior field.

$ ?

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2022, 03:09:35 AM »
Not sure why he thinks it is best for his family but evidently he does.
You partially answered your own question: "Not a very strong field" + huge guaranteed money.

Terrible look for a competitor taking the $ to play an inferior field. Shack speculates it could hurt DJ's Hall of Fame chances, and it may eliminate Westwood, Poulter, McDdowell, Sergio, and Kaymer from ever getting a Ryder Cup captaincy.

There are plenty of inferior fields on every Tour in the world. Saudis have been involved with loads of tours and world wide golfers with investment in corporations and hosting their own lucrative events. The look is only bad because people decided to look. Nobody bothered looking previously. It took a a few loud mouth schmucks to get the attention of the media. What happens then? People attack the loud mouth schmucks. If its OK for a schmuck wearing a tie to line his pockets with dirty money, why not for a schmuck swinging a club? The standard has been set. All Phil and Greg did was to brazenly follow the standard. Maybe it's the personality of these guys that people don't care for rather than the source of the money.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South & Crystal Downs

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2022, 06:54:23 AM »
I think DJ will provide the cover for a couple more surprises.

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2022, 07:33:45 AM »
   I donít think itís the dirty money; I think the PGA is worried about serious dilution of itís product.  This is a garden variety restrictive covenant business dispute, and the courts will have to decide on the enforceability of the PGA Tourís contracts.
   Courtís tend not to like restrictive covenants, but those cases typically occur when an employee leaves one competitor for another. Yes, these guys are ďindependent contractors,Ē but they are still violating the terms of their PGA Tour contracts. Lots of money for lawyers here.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2022, 07:57:12 AM »
PGA should suspend them all for the rest of the season and next years PGA Championship if they really want to make a statement. :o
Might as well start the litigation now.
The PGA Tour ≠ the PGA.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2022, 08:29:44 AM »
PGA should suspend them all for the rest of the season and next years PGA Championship if they really want to make a statement. :o
Might as well start the litigation now.
The PGA Tour ≠ the PGA.


PGA Tour and the PGA of America?
"I used to get pissed at blowing leads until I quit having them" John Kavanaugh

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2022, 09:00:30 AM »
PGA should suspend them all for the rest of the season and next years PGA Championship if they really want to make a statement. :o
Might as well start the litigation now.
The PGA Tour ≠ the PGA.


PGA Tour and the PGA of America?


Separate operations. Have been legally since 1975, and effectively since 1969.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Mike Worth

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2022, 09:29:38 AM »
   I donít think itís the dirty money; I think the PGA is worried about serious dilution of itís product.  This is a garden variety restrictive covenant business dispute, and the courts will have to decide on the enforceability of the PGA Tourís contracts.
   Courtís tend not to like restrictive covenants, but those cases typically occur when an employee leaves one competitor for another. Yes, these guys are ďindependent contractors,Ē but they are still violating the terms of their PGA Tour contracts. Lots of money for lawyers here.


Weíll stated.


Iím a larger sense, can the PGA Tourís actions (or threatened actions) be reasonably interpreted to be a violation of anti-trust laws?







John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2022, 09:43:47 AM »
   I donít think itís the dirty money; I think the PGA is worried about serious dilution of itís product.  This is a garden variety restrictive covenant business dispute, and the courts will have to decide on the enforceability of the PGA Tourís contracts.
   Courtís tend not to like restrictive covenants, but those cases typically occur when an employee leaves one competitor for another. Yes, these guys are ďindependent contractors,Ē but they are still violating the terms of their PGA Tour contracts. Lots of money for lawyers here.


Weíll stated.


Iím a larger sense, can the PGA Tourís actions (or threatened actions) be reasonably interpreted to be a violation of anti-trust laws?


Damn autocorrect. Itís the bots that will get us before the Saudis.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2022, 10:07:53 AM »
Dustin Johnson's entry surprised me, looks to be a test case for extended litigation between him and the PGA Tour. I'm sure LIV will be bankrolling this litigation. I hope he understands what he has bought into. I bet the guaranteed money is astronomical.


Takes a lot of pressure off Phil Michelson. I hope he stays away but the money train may be just too great to refuse.



Lived Chicago, now Jupiter, Fl, was a 4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 3 back, wrist, shoulder surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, I don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2022, 10:33:34 AM »
If the players on the Tour are truly "independent contractors", they can select where to earn a living, unless precluded by a non-compete or other clause - IMHO. 


Many of the players in the LIV event requested a release to play in this, per the rules and were denied a release.  A few guys with deep pockets, a major or two on their CV, and independent thinkers, decide to say "Pound salt" to the Tour and test the waters and see what happens.


GOOD FOR THEM!


Testing the boundaries of existing business makes a product, and thus capitalism, better for both the product supplier and the consumer.


I look forward to seeing the product and then the results








Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2022, 10:37:32 AM »
Mike: I have no doubt anti trust will be part of whatís thrown against the wall. I suspect the PGA Tourís response will be there is no restraint, as the LIV guys are out there competing.  Again, this is a great law school exam question.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2022, 10:42:27 AM »
If the players on the Tour are truly "independent contractors", they can select where to earn a living, unless precluded by a non-compete or other clause - IMHO.
Of course it includes clauses. That's the whole point, and why they needed releases. Nobody is making them choose to join the PGA Tour. They do so willingly.

IANAL, though, so I don't know if the existence of other Tours means that the PGA Tour is guilty of "restraint of trade" in an illegal way if they ban those players for violating the terms they willingly agreed to when they joined the PGA Tour.



Separate operations. Have been legally since 1975, and effectively since 1969.

Yes, thank you. The PGA Tour isn't the PGA (of America), and the former has no real say (outside of being a "friend") to how the PGA operates its championship.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2022, 10:45:57 AM »
I am not an attorney and know very little about litigation. That said, I can see the lawsuits that will likely be made taking years to resolve. In the meantime Dustin et al might be allowed to compete on the tour until the suits are settled. Does that seem a likely scenario?
Tom Williamsen
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan ďThe most important shot in golf is the next oneĒ

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2022, 10:54:13 AM »
The only real surprise in the field to me is DJ.  It seems that he is stating that he recognizes he is at the end of his career--and no longer really competitive.  I'm surprised he feels that way.  I'm disappointed.

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2022, 11:18:34 AM »

The only real surprise in the field to me is DJ.  It seems that he is stating that he recognizes he is at the end of his career--and no longer really competitive.  I'm surprised he feels that way.  I'm disappointed.





My first thought as well. Wonder what the Great One thinks?

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2022, 11:25:27 AM »
Tommy: 
   I think that the only way a court will allow a player to play on the PGA Tour while litigation is pending is if the court were to conclude that it is reasonably likely that the player will prevail in his suit. If a court so concludes, then a temporary restraining order will issue. These are not easy to get, as you can well imagine.   
   As to why DJ thinks his decision is best for his family, it is being reported that he's getting $150 million to defect.  I can see how his family might like this.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 11:27:07 AM by Jim_Coleman »

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2022, 11:38:31 AM »

In true social media fashion, my thoughts without any actual research:

I feel like this is enough to blow up the PGA Tour as we now know it.


 The Saudis have shown a willingness to throw stupid money at sports in the past and there is no reason to think something different will happen here.


Mickelson's comments laid out the human rights concerns in stark detail but it did not kill the idea and there are enough inconsistencies in any moral stand taken against the concept that I think money wins out in the end.  We take oil from the Saudis.  Other sports have had events in the country without serious repercussions.  Our relationship with the country remains important - all the more so in light of events in Russia.  Financial and security concerns almost universally win out over moral concerns,


PGA Tour actions appear to raise serious antitrust concerns and also serious concerns about whether its players are truly independent contractors or employees.  While the Tour's coffers are big, I doubt they have the resources to counter a Saudi sports washing effort. 

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2022, 11:45:37 AM »
Looks like the average field for a Euro tour event that we see on TGC at 8:00 am on weekends.
It's certainly not a major field or a field like the Memorial. But, looks like some event that we see all the time, but with Saudis and Greg Norman controversy instead of a low-noise event.



These guys are independent contractors, not employees, and should be able to earn their living when and where they decide.

Jim Sullivan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: LIV field
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2022, 11:56:02 AM »

These guys are independent contractors, not employees, and should be able to earn their living when and where they decide.



But...are you suggesting the PGA Tour should have to let them come and go as they please? If the Saudi's are effective, they will put the PGA TOUR substantially out of business.


You may doubt that, but please describe a scenario in which the LIV Tour is alive and well in 5 years and the PGA Tour product, with all its moving parts and beneficiaries, is unaffected.

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