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mike_malone

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Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« on: May 19, 2022, 12:23:10 PM »
It looks like the land is great for golf and the green complexes challenge these pros.
AKA Mayday

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2022, 12:42:30 PM »
I just heard one of the announcers in the ESPN studio refer to Southern Hills as a Hanse ďredesign.Ē I know the terms restoration, renovation, restovation, and redesign are bandied about depending on who is involved in the discussion but ďredesignĒ misses the mark IMO. I listened to Hanse last night on the Golf Channel and he doesnít consider it a redesign. The lions share of his work does not get his name on the scorecard upon completion.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 12:45:15 PM by Tim Martin »

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2022, 12:51:59 PM »
And no blinding white sand in the bunkers. :)

mike_malone

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Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2022, 12:54:10 PM »
Listed in Restorations on Hanse website.
AKA Mayday

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2022, 01:11:42 PM »
Iím old. The Joe Buck/Michael Collins coverage is where we are going. Why no free streaming like the Masters. The PGA is losing it.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2022, 01:25:02 PM »
Iím old. The Joe Buck/Michael Collins coverage is where we are going. Why no free streaming like the Masters. The PGA is losing it.


No interest in what Joe, Michael or Peyton have to the say when it comes to the PGA. They are trying way to hard.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2022, 01:32:08 PM »
Certainly not a redesign...

Hole Corridors are exactly the same... just a few removed and added bunkers here and there.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=d6a4b4f8-7d3d-494f-af2d-4a93d6398da1&cp=36.075204~-95.946629&lvl=16&style=h&imgid=aacb7e17-e436-46ce-a6ad-ec1be8a4521e&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2022, 01:43:20 PM »
Since I posted reply # 5 Eli Manning has joined Joe, Michael and Peyton. As a life long NY Giant fan I love him but donít think he has added anything to the stew. Sorry for going off topic. :)

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2022, 02:45:29 PM »
If you live in Canada, the ESPN+ coverage is on TSN, followed by the ESPN coverage. Twelve straight hours of golf. TSN does the same thing with the online Masters coverage, spreading it across several channels. Now I know why it's called the Great White North.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Mike_Trenham

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Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2022, 03:19:57 PM »
#4 green looks a lot like what Maxwell built at ANGC#7 and GMGC#8.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2022, 03:24:53 PM »
Certainly not a redesign...

Hole Corridors are exactly the same... just a few removed and added bunkers here and there.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=d6a4b4f8-7d3d-494f-af2d-4a93d6398da1&cp=36.075204~-95.946629&lvl=16&style=h&imgid=aacb7e17-e436-46ce-a6ad-ec1be8a4521e&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027


From what I saw of Hanse on GC yesterday he doesn't consider it a redesign
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2022, 03:37:58 PM »
Certainly not a redesign...

Hole Corridors are exactly the same... just a few removed and added bunkers here and there.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=d6a4b4f8-7d3d-494f-af2d-4a93d6398da1&cp=36.075204~-95.946629&lvl=16&style=h&imgid=aacb7e17-e436-46ce-a6ad-ec1be8a4521e&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027


From what I saw of Hanse on GC yesterday he doesn't consider it a redesign


Yea i'm watching right now, its the CBS crew on ESPN.  Glad i missed the morning "meat head" comments...

P.S.  I don't understand the mindset... Is ESPN trying to pull in more viewers?  Or just couldn't give a shit about fielding a competent golf team?

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2022, 06:24:30 PM »
I am a ESPN+ subscriber and we get 5 different feeds.  4 featured groups and coverage of 16, 17 and 18. 


Just now it was mentioned that there is a system under each of the greens regulating their temperature, like a heated floor. 


Is anyone familiar with this system?  What is it called and how much $ does it cost? 
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

David_Tepper

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Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2022, 06:28:10 PM »
Does anyone else think the pins today are awfully close to the edges of the greens?

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2022, 06:36:13 PM »
Certainly not a redesign...

Hole Corridors are exactly the same... just a few removed and added bunkers here and there.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=d6a4b4f8-7d3d-494f-af2d-4a93d6398da1&cp=36.075204~-95.946629&lvl=16&style=h&imgid=aacb7e17-e436-46ce-a6ad-ec1be8a4521e&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027


From what I saw of Hanse on GC yesterday he doesn't consider it a redesign


Yea i'm watching right now, its the CBS crew on ESPN.  Glad i missed the morning "meat head" comments...

P.S.  I don't understand the mindset... Is ESPN trying to pull in more viewers?  Or just couldn't give a shit about fielding a competent golf team?


I just think ESPN is generally incompetent.  It has been a generation since I watched SportsCenter.  There have been good announcers who were not golf-centric (Vin Scully and Pat Summeral come to mind).  But the length of a golf broadcast and the fact that the crescendos in golf are different than other sports it takes some thinking about who goes on the broadcast. Joe Buck ain't it.
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2022, 06:57:21 PM »
I am a ESPN+ subscriber and we get 5 different feeds.  4 featured groups and coverage of 16, 17 and 18. 


Just now it was mentioned that there is a system under each of the greens regulating their temperature, like a heated floor. 


Is anyone familiar with this system?  What is it called and how much $ does it cost?


I don't know the name, but I heard someone discussing installing it at another high-end south-central US club at a cost of $600K per green.

Doug Bolls

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2022, 07:15:32 PM »
This from "The Fried Egg" on the restoration:


Perhaps the most new-fashioned aspect of Southern Hills lies underground. During the restoration, the club [/size]installed[/color][/size] 200,000 feet of tubing beneath the greens for heating and cooling. This state-of-the-art hydronics system will give Russ Myers precise control over the subsurface temperatures of the bentgrass putting surfaces. It is an innovation that Perry Maxwell couldnít have imagined, and one that traditionalists may decry as an extravagance.[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size][/color]

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2022, 07:42:34 PM »
Certainly not a redesign...

Hole Corridors are exactly the same... just a few removed and added bunkers here and there.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=d6a4b4f8-7d3d-494f-af2d-4a93d6398da1&cp=36.075204~-95.946629&lvl=16&style=h&imgid=aacb7e17-e436-46ce-a6ad-ec1be8a4521e&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

From what I saw of Hanse on GC yesterday he doesn't consider it a redesign

Yea i'm watching right now, its the CBS crew on ESPN.  Glad i missed the morning "meat head" comments...

P.S.  I don't understand the mindset... Is ESPN trying to pull in more viewers?  Or just couldn't give a shit about fielding a competent golf team?

I just think ESPN is generally incompetent.  It has been a generation since I watched SportsCenter.  There have been good announcers who were not golf-centric (Vin Scully and Pat Summeral come to mind).  But the length of a golf broadcast and the fact that the crescendos in golf are different than other sports it takes some thinking about who goes on the broadcast. Joe Buck ain't it.

It was at least ok when they had John Tirico, but when they lost him and were using Chris Berman, and now Joe Buck, its like I gotta mute it...

P.S.  I agree on SportsCenter in general, but you should tune in for a Scott Van Pelt version, he runs an excellent version of the show.  But yes more often than not I just tune into see specific highlights...

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2022, 08:02:21 PM »
Certainly not a redesign...

Hole Corridors are exactly the same... just a few removed and added bunkers here and there.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=d6a4b4f8-7d3d-494f-af2d-4a93d6398da1&cp=36.075204~-95.946629&lvl=16&style=h&imgid=aacb7e17-e436-46ce-a6ad-ec1be8a4521e&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

From what I saw of Hanse on GC yesterday he doesn't consider it a redesign

Yea i'm watching right now, its the CBS crew on ESPN.  Glad i missed the morning "meat head" comments...

P.S.  I don't understand the mindset... Is ESPN trying to pull in more viewers?  Or just couldn't give a shit about fielding a competent golf team?

I just think ESPN is generally incompetent.  It has been a generation since I watched SportsCenter.  There have been good announcers who were not golf-centric (Vin Scully and Pat Summeral come to mind).  But the length of a golf broadcast and the fact that the crescendos in golf are different than other sports it takes some thinking about who goes on the broadcast. Joe Buck ain't it.

It was at least ok when they had John Tirico, but when they lost him and were using Chris Berman, and now Joe Buck, its like I gotta mute it...

P.S.  I agree on SportsCenter in general, but you should tune in for a Scott Van Pelt version, he runs an excellent version of the show.  But yes more often than not I just tune into see specific highlights...


1.  There is always a Lana song for every tournament:. https://youtu.be/pLiCh9PXbwg


2.  The Tirico brothers are both golf native and I enjoy their work: more on the host side but they get the game and are generally really professional golfing announcers.


3. SC upsets me because it apes the cable news: engagement is making 20% of the population really, really mad.  Steven A exists to yell on television 6 days a week.  There are things in the sports world to be mad about.  But this constant pushing emotional buttons is phony.


(rant off)
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2022, 10:01:14 PM »
I am a ESPN+ subscriber and we get 5 different feeds.  4 featured groups and coverage of 16, 17 and 18. 


Just now it was mentioned that there is a system under each of the greens regulating their temperature, like a heated floor. 


Is anyone familiar with this system?  What is it called and how much $ does it cost?


I don't know the name, but I heard someone discussing installing it at another high-end south-central US club at a cost of $600K per green.


$600,000 per hole was the cost of the entire renovation of Southern Hill, $11,000,000.


I too think a HVAC system under each green is not something to be admired/championed.  They also did this at Merion East. Iíve heard of other courses too but canít remember well enough to list them here. I guess if the USGA or PGA suggests itís a prerequisite for multiple future majors there is no choice.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2022, 10:26:10 PM »
 My beautiful Australian Silky Terrier is napping on my lap.


Iím listening to Miles Davis ĎKind of Blue.Ē


Bourbon on ice, a splash.


Images of a great golf course with the greatest players magnify on my screen.


And the sound is MUTED and will remain that way throughout the tournament.


Order has been restored..









"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2022, 08:50:47 AM »
I am a ESPN+ subscriber and we get 5 different feeds.  4 featured groups and coverage of 16, 17 and 18. 


Just now it was mentioned that there is a system under each of the greens regulating their temperature, like a heated floor. 


Is anyone familiar with this system?  What is it called and how much $ does it cost?


I don't know the name, but I heard someone discussing installing it at another high-end south-central US club at a cost of $600K per green.


$600,000 per hole was the cost of the entire renovation of Southern Hill, $11,000,000.


I too think a HVAC system under each green is not something to be admired/championed.  They also did this at Merion East. Iíve heard of other courses too but canít remember well enough to list them here. I guess if the USGA or PGA suggests itís a prerequisite for multiple future majors there is no choice.


Agree 100%.
Where does it all end?
Despite the expense and extravagance of the "restoration", 90% of the comments from press and players about the course have been about the condition of the course.


Sand is a hot topic everyone is being asked to comment on.Funnily eough, the sand IS resored and actually saved from the previous iteration of the course.




The reigning Masters Champon mentioned THREE times in his interview how chewed up the greens were in the afternoon-at a course where they just spent 11 million-playing in May!! not August when the PGA used to be played, or late June for a US Open.


My point is I hear more questions and comments about conditioning issues than ever, despite all the expense and extravagance poured into high profile courses.
Raising expectations to such a high level that a full field full of footprints is now a problem for players(to be fair Aimpoint certainly contributes but I digress....)


Every single 6 footer did not used to be a gimme. Greens weren't perfectly consistent.
That said, one could firmly strike a putt with inconsistencies without fear of it running another 6 feet by.


Every single bunker shot did not used to have a consistent type, color and size of sand grain to ensure high, "consistent" spin and experience from odd and variable lies mattered. To be fair, they weren't trying to stop the ball on greens rolling 13 either as they are now
(IMHO that's yet another problem/root of other problems-again I digress...but while I'm at it,how do you "restore" a course when you're maintaining the greens at more than DOUBLE the stimp speed they were from whatever period they are basing the restoration on.)


I had a very interesting, highly varied incredible week which really confirmed/cemented my ideas on green speed/redesign, and in some ways broke my heart. Can't really comment on it yet but hope to in some way when I get my thoughts together and figure out a way to comment without offense, as none is intended.

"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jim OíKane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2022, 02:52:27 PM »
Iím old. The Joe Buck/Michael Collins coverage is where we are going. Why no free streaming like the Masters. The PGA is losing it.


Agreed. I am too. I watched a little and just couldn't take it. Freddy and Pat Perez (who was out until 10am in Las Vegas last night/this morning) were on, and made it somewhat tolerable. All in all though, pretty awful.


PGA website had no coverage this morning.


Missed opportunity.


I like Scott Van Pelt though. I think he does a good job.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 02:57:09 PM by Jim OíKane »

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2022, 05:28:36 PM »
For years I've declined to pay $7 a month for ESPN+ but I ponied it up yesterday. Coverage has been excellent with a choice of three featured groups plus regular feed. I highly recommend it.

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfing going on at Southern Hills.
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2022, 07:41:47 PM »
Bubba hits a iron on 18. It rolls up against the rough on the edge of the creek.  One announcer said "He'll have to hit a sweeping hook from there". The other announcer said "He's got the imagination to pull it off!"


Sweet Jesus, does he not know it is "skill" , and not "imagination", that is required?
He's nuttier than a squirrel turd.

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