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Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Pete Dye or Donald Ross?
« on: May 04, 2022, 12:24:25 PM »
During a match at our home course this week, a fellow asked me "Is this a Pete Dye course?"


The fellow plays on a Donald Ross course, but could not connect the two courses. They are not dissimilar.


I realized that many people simply offer a name of an architect that they have heard or read.


To the untrained and unread eye and mind, bunkers are bunkers. Greens are greens. Fairways are fairways.
Maybe for 2022
~Eden Valley
~Hillview
~Pinehurst (NY)
~Kis 'N Greens
~Pine Meadows
~18 Mile Creek
~Greenwood
~Shawnee
~Leroy
~

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pete Dye or Donald Ross?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2022, 01:58:27 PM »
Define trained. It's the assumption of stupidity that quells the thirst for knowledge. I find it fascinating to listen and learn what golfers know before I preach to them about what they don't.

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pete Dye or Donald Ross?
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2022, 02:04:01 PM »
"most" golfers I come across are not golf architecture geeks like us. They are there to play golf, they couldn't care less who designed the course, and all the nuances involved in course design.
I would play most Ross courses over most Dye courses most days of the week.
Last Played: 
Lancaster GC (OH), Widow's Watch GC (KY) Shelby Park (TN), Schoolmaster (AL), Fighting Joe (AL), Links at Redstone (AL) , Sewanee (TN) , Southern Dunes (IN), Hickory Stick (IN), Wilmington Muni (NC), Stryker (NC), Pilot Knob Park (NC), Wild Dunes Links (SC), Chas Municipal (SC)

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pete Dye or Donald Ross?
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2022, 02:28:09 PM »
With all the Dyebros restoring Ross courses it won't be long before the only difference is the age of the clubhouse.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pete Dye or Donald Ross?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2022, 03:15:41 PM »
After the current lineup of superstar archies are called home their courses will also get changed/restored. I can’t say exactly when but it’s the way of the world.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pete Dye or Donald Ross?
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2022, 03:45:42 PM »
I'll be spending a week with a bunch of untrained and unread minds at Pinehurst next week. We got through Pebble last year without anyone falling in the ocean. I will say though that despite their dumbheadedness they all thought Spanish Bay was the worst course we played. Their analysis was spot on, the only difference being that these guys don't bitch about maintenance with quite the fervor you see on here. Maintenance meld...give me a break.


I am looking forward to listening to the debate concerning Cradle v. Hay.


One thing I do know is that these guys won't be taking practice swings in greenside bunkers just cause some starter says that every inch of sand on the course is a waste area.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 03:58:49 PM by John Kavanaugh »

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pete Dye or Donald Ross?
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2022, 07:21:16 PM »
I have a friend bringing a group to Pebble next week. He’s just hoping to break 100 on each course. I said, “where you staying, not where you playing?”


He said they’re staying at Spanish Bay. That, in my opinion, is what they’ll be happiest about. Just saying.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pete Dye or Donald Ross?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2022, 09:18:05 PM »
Has failing to know or care about the architect ever cost anyone a shot or an ounce of enjoyment?
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pete Dye or Donald Ross?
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2022, 06:10:30 AM »
During a match at our home course this week, a fellow asked me "Is this a Pete Dye course?"


The fellow plays on a Donald Ross course, but could not connect the two courses. They are not dissimilar.


I realized that many people simply offer a name of an architect that they have heard or read.


To the untrained and unread eye and mind, bunkers are bunkers. Greens are greens. Fairways are fairways.


Does the golfer who asked you the question know that you are a recognized published expert in the field? What Ross course does he play?








Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pete Dye or Donald Ross?
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2022, 11:07:35 AM »
Poor H H Barker - not even a footnote to Donald J Ross.


Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pete Dye or Donald Ross?
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2022, 02:07:27 PM »
It's the same with paintings, most people not only don't know who the artist is, but could care less. They are just not interested. I have a friend who has an important worldclass train collection, who knows nothing about golf or art, and he is a very bright guy.
Lived Chicago, now Jupiter, Fl, was a 4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 3 back, wrist, shoulder surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, I don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pete Dye or Donald Ross?
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2022, 02:29:00 PM »
It's the same with paintings, most people not only don't know who the artist is, but could care less. They are just not interested. I have a friend who has an important worldclass train collection, who knows nothing about golf or art, and he is a very bright guy.


Cary,


Would your friend think you were stupid if you mistook his Z scale train for a more classic HO scale? Would he post about it on his blog?  It is kinda stupid. Who could blame him?

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pete Dye or Donald Ross?
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2022, 10:22:57 AM »
I'll be spending a week with a bunch of untrained and unread minds at Pinehurst next week...


I am looking forward to listening to the debate concerning Cradle v. Hay.


One thing I do know is that these guys won't be taking practice swings in greenside bunkers just cause some starter says that every inch of sand on the course is a waste area.


JK, So how many and which Ross courses are on the itinerary?  The usual suspects?
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Peter Sayegh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pete Dye or Donald Ross?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2022, 10:45:42 AM »
Has failing to know or care about the architect ever cost anyone a shot or an ounce of enjoyment?
+1. A perfect post.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2022, 10:47:14 AM by Peter Sayegh »

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