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Rob Marshall

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The National at Ave Maria. Strange distances…..
« on: April 30, 2022, 10:28:40 AM »
Played yesterday at The National at Ave Maria. I don’t think I’ve ever played a course with weirder distances. Back tees are 7309 the next set was at 6435. Almost 900 yards between the two. Two par threes on front from the back 242 and 266. First with a long carry over water. From the next set they played 219 and 222. One of the par fives on back was 701. The other was 598. Then a simple 114 yard par 3.


Despite being in the middle of nowhere the course was in great shape with some of the best putting greens I’ve played in Florida. It’s a Gordon Lewis course. Don’t know what his other courses are like. Looks like he’s based out of Naples Florida and has done a lot of work in that area.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2022, 10:33:14 AM by Rob Marshall »
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

David_Tepper

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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: The National at Ave Maria. Strange distances…..
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2022, 03:08:41 PM »
Maybe the shorter tees could be called Dolce Maria.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Ken Moum

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Re: The National at Ave Maria. Strange distances…..
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2022, 09:44:49 PM »
Re. the 900-yard difference,  sounds like something I saw Nicklaus quoted on.


He said that back tees needed to be 7,000 plus, but "most" men played one tee up and they shouldn't.


So he eliminated that tee and went straight to mid-6000s.


I have no idea if he actually did it though,  as I'm pretty sure I've never set foot on one of his courses.
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Matt_Cohn

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Re: The National at Ave Maria. Strange distances…..
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2022, 03:22:38 PM »
I kind of like it for the reason Ken posted above. So many players go one set up from the tips when they should be up by two. Also seems like they could easily make a set of combo tees where you play the tips except on the holes where the tips are 60+ yards behind the next set.

Bryan Izatt

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Re: The National at Ave Maria. Strange distances…..
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2022, 10:34:32 PM »



I played at The National a good number of times over the winter season because it was reasonably priced and available for public play although always very crowded and slow.  I thought it was a credible course and design for a Florida residential development. They did a nice job of creating rolling and undulating fairways and the greens had some nice movement in them.  Given it was new, the conditions were good.


I rarely look at the yardage from the tips as there's no point in me trying to play there.  I went two up from the tips at just over 6000 yards.  I tried the tee back from there a couple of times, but the two long par 3's on the front nine were driver for me playing to the north into the winter wind and were just lost ball territory.


I suppose they put the little tee pads for the tips far enough back to be able to advertise the course as championship but I can't imagine anybody from a Florida residential community actually playing from back there when they take it private.  The good news is that the design of the holes routed between the housing streets is such that there is virtually no back-tracking the tip tees - you just drive right on by them and they're small enough that they'll require minimal maintenance. Being a residential course it is designed for cart ball.  The bad news, now, is that the housing development is just underway so there is a lot of heavy construction for sewers and water etc. resulting in many areas where the cart paths are through dusty gravel and broken ground.


The combination of holes is interesting in that the two long par 3's are on the front offset by two shortish par 5's.  The back nine is the opposite with two short par 3's and two long par 5's.  The par 4's are a good mix of short, medium and long holes.


It was a worthwhile place to play in an area where there is a dearth of reasonably priced and nicely designed and well maintained courses.


Rob Marshall

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Re: The National at Ave Maria. Strange distances…..
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2022, 08:56:02 AM »
That's a pretty good summary Bryan. The course was playing pretty fast so I would have liked to stretch a few holes out but not the front nine par 3's........
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

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