News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Elite, secretive N.J. golf club unlawfully banned women from playing, owning houses, complaint says....
The state filed a civil rights complaint against the Pine Valley Golf Club on Wednesday, alleging “a pattern of gender-based discrimination” by the historically male-dominated club in its membership, its public accommodations, its employment and restricted housing opportunities to live on the course offered only to members.

According to the eight-page administrative complaint, the state Attorney General’s office alleged that Pine Valley violated New Jersey’s Law Against Discrimination by banning women from becoming members and restricting their ability to golf and to access club facilities.


https://www.nj.com/news/2022/04/elite-secretive-nj-golf-club-unlawfully-banned-women-from-playing-owning-houses-complaint-says.html
« Last Edit: April 28, 2022, 04:54:06 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
This doesn't seem to be a big deal.  Won't the court decide whether the club is violation N.J. law or not?  I hope the resolution will be peaceful and respected by both sides.

John Sabino

  • Karma: +0/-0
A frivolous lawsuit and a waste of my money as a tax payer in New Jersey. I thought you are allowed free association in the United States. As a private club they can decide who they want as members and it is not discrimination. This same progressive administration closed golf courses during the early stages of the pandemic because it was a health hazard. This law suit makes about as much sense as that. Aren't there more important things in the state that the governor and his cronies should be doing?
Author: How to Play the World's Most Exclusive Golf Clubs and Golf's Iron Horse - The Astonishing, Record-Breaking Life of Ralph Kennedy

http://www.top100golf.blogspot.com/

Stewart Abramson

  • Karma: +0/-0
A frivolous lawsuit and a waste of my money as a tax payer in New Jersey. I thought you are allowed free association in the United States. As a private club they can decide who they want as members and it is not discrimination. This same progressive administration closed golf courses during the early stages of the pandemic because it was a health hazard. This law suit makes about as much sense as that. Aren't there more important things in the state that the governor and his cronies should be doing?


Although Federal law does not prohibit private clubs from discriminating, some states do have such prohibitions based on a range of protected classes . I don't know if NJ is one of them, but based on the suit, assume that it is. The suit is not necessarily frivolous form a legal perspective and is unlikely to be dismissed on motion. To many people, fighting gender discrimination (even in private clubs) is important.

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
  I’ve often wondered how a municipality can be private. I’ve also always assumed that the people at PV are very smart and so, if they haven’t been challenged for over 100 years, they must have one hell of an argument. What may have changed in the last few years, however, is that right and wrong are far less important than who is on the court.

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Based on the timing, the complainant brought this to the attention of the Division on Civil Rights after the Pine Valley borough (or town, as most states would call it) was consolidated with Pine Hills, N.J., a town of about 10,000 near the golf club. Pine Valley's population in 2010 was 10.


Point 26 of the complaint notes: For these reasons, particularly the close association between the Club and the Borough detailed herein, the Club, at least until the consolidation, was not “in its nature distinctly private” and was a place of public accommodation under N.J.S.A. 10:5-5(l).

And public places can't discriminate. Interesting case.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Regardless of the merits of this case, now that Pine Valley has begun integrating women into their membership over the last 12mos, most sensible judges will render the case moot and dismiss it.
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
As I understand it private clubs are exempt from most of the civil rights laws which is also used in determining if a club must comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act.  So a member with a disability cannot force accommodations if it is truly a private club - member owned, member governed, etc.  Burning Tree in Bethesda, MD is a male only club and refused to change its policy when challenged by very liberal Montgomery County and as a result the County eliminated its preferred property tax rate as open space which cost the members quite a bit of money but they refused to budge.

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
I believe private golf courses are not exempt from ADA if they are considered a place of public accommodation.  If a course has outings they will lose their exemption.  Similarly holding a tournament open to the public will have the same result.  Pine Valley opens to the public for the Crump Cup.  Thus, they would not be exempt from ADA.  If I am incorrect please post....


Does being a place of public accommodation effect other antidiscrimination laws?  Also, I believe that if a club is getting favorable tax treatment it must follow antidiscrimination laws.  Thus, the Burning Tree ruling.  Again, correct me if I am mistaken.

Steve Salmen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Have any individuals stepped forward to claim they have been harmed by this policy?


I'm not sure this is a case of political grandstanding, but I can see how it can appear that way.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Here is Rob Harris' of Golf Dispute Resolution giving his in depth take on this controversial case:


http://www.golfdisputeresolution.com/?p=7705





 
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Seems like a vendetta.
Tom Williamsen
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0


N.J. county commissioner says consolidation of elite golf course ‘town’ with neighbor was long overdue
Christopher Green has never played an official round at one of the premiere golf courses in the world, which just happens to be in his hometown.
He did play a round or two about 30 years ago when he was a caddy at the Pine Valley Golf Club, a super exclusive, private haunt for the rich, famous, and well connected. But that was when no one was looking.
The club, in fact, was more than a club. It was, until the first of this year, its own municipality, with a borough council, police force and a couple of employees, including security guards, to oversee the 600 or so acres of densely wooded hills punctuated by one of the most coveted shrines of golf in the world



Read more....





https://www.nj.com/news/2022/04/nj-county-commissioner-says-consolidation-of-elite-golf-course-town-with-neighbor-was-long-overdue.html
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 03:14:20 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Here is Rob Harris' of Golf Dispute Resolution giving his in depth take on this controversial case:


http://www.golfdisputeresolution.com/?p=7705


Versus some of the posts Mr. Harris considers this to be a “big deal”.  It involves not only membership discrimination but also housing and employment discrimination.  Not minor allegations and I suspect Mr. Harris has more expertise than GCA posters. How can you disagree with a lawyer that uses Yale 4 as his banner on his web site…

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
As I understand it private clubs are exempt from most of the civil rights laws which is also used in determining if a club must comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act.  So a member with a disability cannot force accommodations if it is truly a private club - member owned, member governed, etc.  Burning Tree in Bethesda, MD is a male only club and refused to change its policy when challenged by very liberal Montgomery County and as a result the County eliminated its preferred property tax rate as open space which cost the members quite a bit of money but they refused to budge.


FYI. Burning Tree has a fund to pay all fines and property tax. It isn't costing the members anything.
Mr Hurricane

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jim: Where’d the money come from that went into the fund? Is there another source of money other than from dues and operations?

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
With all the real causes, items of concern and public policy to focus limited state resources upon, our illustrious Gov. Murphy & Acting AG Platkin have chosen to grandstand to the press on this issue.


You would think trivial items such as the following would critical than suing a private golf club that as existed for 100 years:
1. Getting the state's fiscal house in order
2. Solidifying the State Pension Fund
3. Really enforcing The Mt. Laurel doctrine and force communities to build their fair share of affordable housing
4. It took more than 8 months, with the last 4 months having weekly front page, above the fold articles in the state's leading daily newspaper, for the State to adopt and allow to open recreational cannabis dispensaries - which was mandated via referendum by the voters.
5. Stabilize or lower what are among the highest property taxes in the United States.


When these two idiots begin their grandstanding to attain higher office nationally in two years, just remember this stupidity. 


I know, BK, don't tiptoe around an issue, say what you really mean.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
 ::)


One thing you can be sure of, more government involvement typically costs us all ! In this case the good news is that they probably won't try to redesign  the golf course
« Last Edit: May 02, 2022, 07:22:23 AM by archie_struthers »

Eric LeFante

  • Karma: +0/-0
I don't think the number of female members is the problem, we all know private clubs can choose its members. I think the potential issue is employing few women and choosing who can and can't buy a house in the borough.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2022, 03:13:04 PM by Eric LeFante »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
I don't think the number of female members is the problem, we all know private clubs can choose its members. I think the potential issue is employing few women and choosing who can and can't buy a house in the borough.


Eric,

This is how I interpreted it as well.

Its one thing to create an entirely private community and have rules around who can access it...but seems entirely different to set up a legally recognized government municipality, and then limit who can buy housing there based on private membership rules, which up until recently was entirely male.

Don't know the legality of it, but at least seems a legitimate question to ask.

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jim: Where’d the money come from that went into the fund? Is there another source of money other than from dues and operations?


I believe they may have sold some property that generates the income to cover the cost.
Mr Hurricane

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jim - as I understand it the houses on the estate are only sold to members, I don’t know if the sales are member to member or whether the club buys the house off the member or their estate and then deals with the sale to the next member purchaser.
Cave Nil Vino

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back