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Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
What would cause you to leave your club?
« on: April 25, 2022, 09:29:45 AM »
In the past few weeks a few friends have quit their clubs because is was getting too expensive or it was more difficult to get tee times. Both are grieving because they are leaving courses they love and friends they have made. Ever quit your club? Or are debating quitting?
Tom Williamsen
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

David Wuthrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2022, 11:34:23 AM »
I think both of those would be cause to have me look at the membership.  It can get to a point where it is just not worth it to belong, and that would be a sad day, but I'm sure many people at dealing with that reality.

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2022, 11:36:28 AM »
I quit my club because it was too crowded, and as a result the experience wasn't a whole lot different than a public course. Except that I was paying for it even when I wasn't playing. At this point, I'd rather save my money and take longer summer trips to Ireland and Scotland.

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2022, 12:08:35 PM »
I would guess most people quit because lack of use.  It seems the lack of use now might not be by choice.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2022, 12:11:48 PM »

As far as my current club I could only see leaving it if I moved, had a significant change in my financial situation, or the conditions were allowed to meaningfully deteriorate.

When considering the OP I thought through my choices for my regular game over the years and realized that I have left clubs/courses for the following reasons:


- These examples are for second club memberships


> Conditions deteriorated and I lost confidence that they would be able to make it right again


> Increased membership and pricing that took a premium experience (at an already premium price) and changed the value proposition for the worse


- For primary club/course


> A few people in my regular game had disagreements with management and the game migrated to a different course that gave us all a deal if we came in as a group


> Simply got bored with the course I was playing at coupled with a regular game that was deteriorating - found a more interesting place with a better regular game that was worth the added expense


I guess it basically comes down to conditioning (especially of the greens above all else) and having a good group of guys to play with.


I do think that the underlying architecture does have an impact on which courses draw better groups of guys. I have no formal research but in my experience I have found that courses with a length (6200-6500) and interest levels conducive to good 45-65 year old players are the ones that tend to maintain good groups of good players welcoming to many age groups. If a course is too long and hard, the older players will tend to fade out of the game because you can't beat length on a course that excessively rewards it relative to other parts of the skill set. Conversely, if it is too short and uninteresting the good younger players won't be interested. My anecdotal evidence is based on being a decent club/local level player for the past 40+ years having a game between a 3 and 7 index depending on how life infringes on my time.   



Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2022, 06:05:14 PM »
It's interesting to me that we're already seeing conditioning as an answer. It seems so very "American."


FWIW I decided about 50 years ago to stop complaining about golf course conditions.  It's simply not worth the space in my day.


At the time I played at the only course in town, and by any measure it was awful.


Waist-high weeds in at least half of the 50-odd bunkers. Shoulder-high fireweed in large areas of rough. Greens with huge patches of bare ground. Cart-packed hardpan around every green.  Ad infinitum.


But we played.


Where I'm currently a member nothing of the sort exists and yet EVERY SINGLE TIME I play someone has to bitch about the condition of the course. All they're doing is making themselves unhappy.


So...the only only thing that gets me to quit is moving or a change in finances.
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2022, 06:39:57 PM »
I think that I would leave my club if people criticized my intentions as less than honorable. My living does not come from golf course photography and writing; I do both to further access to courses and the humans involved in golf. To question my integrity is beyond the pale.

Oh, wait, you were talking about an actual golf club, and not GCA?

Whoops. Cat's out of the bag.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Maybe for 2022
~Eden Valley
~Hillview
~Pinehurst (NY)
~Kis 'N Greens
~Pine Meadows
~18 Mile Creek
~Greenwood
~Shawnee
~Leroy
~

Joe_Tucholski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2022, 08:01:58 PM »
It's interesting to me that we're already seeing conditioning as an answer. It seems so very "American."


Ken I think it's all about value, I don't think that's an "American" thing.  People are going to leave a club if they no longer see appropriate value.  I also don't think constant complaining is a strictly "American" thing.


Clubs are often very expensive in the US and they are able to charge a premium.  Reasons I can come up with for the higher prices are prestige, premium golf, networking and often service.


If people think they can get an equivalent experience (prestige, high quality course, conditioning, pace of play, tee time availability, proximity to home, netowrking/friends...) somewhere else for less without a lot of hassle it would be silly to stay.  Similarly people may leave if they can get a better experience even if it cost more (ie better value).


I've left clubs because I've moved.  I could have continued as a member paying non-resident dues, but the ones I've left didn't provide sufficient value to continue paying any dues.  I have paid membership dues for the last 10 years at a course I haven't visited in that time.  I do it because it still has value.  The value comes in various forms, but primarily future value that I'll hopefully utilize.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2022, 09:04:32 PM »
Ever quit your club? Or are debating quitting?


I've resigned from more than half-dozen clubs in my time, mostly due to better opportunities and location.


I'm currently contemplating a change because my club of some 8 years is under new ownership and it appears to be adopting an operating plan of high use/low maintenance more common in the daily-fee segment.  A new online tee time system now allows any member to jump in on your time to fill it up to five players.  In the past, the pro shop would try to match players looking for a game with those having openings on their times based on compatibility factors such as walking/riding, pace and level of play, tees, etc.  Getting on the course has not been a problem with the possible exception of some weekend mornings, but for whatever reason, there is high demand for the early times by a few golfers who still want to play at a leisurely pace.   
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 01:23:54 PM by Lou_Duran »

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2022, 09:12:21 PM »
Bankruptcy and not wanting to belong to the new owner's club.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2022, 09:29:35 PM »
I left my club last fall. They wouldn't elect me to the board so I quit. ;) Not really. It just became too painful to play with arthritis in cold damp weather which now seems to be half the year. Didn't want to pay for golf I wasn't playing.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2022, 09:49:27 PM »
It's interesting to me that we're already seeing conditioning as an answer. It seems so very "American."


Ken I think it's all about value, I don't think that's an "American" thing.  People are going to leave a club if they no longer see appropriate value.  I also don't think constant complaining is a strictly "American" thing.
...
It seems to me you didn't get what Ken meant. Golf is not about "conditioning". To leave a club over conditioning seems fickle to some. Lots of golfers enjoy their golf on poorly conditioned golf courses and could care less. While others insist on immaculate conditions on lousy golf courses. I prefer to play with those not concerned about conditioning over these that seem to think it is the be all end all of golf.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2022, 10:43:23 PM »
There is a big difference between conditioning being the “be all and end all” and not wanting to play on diseased greens with bare patches and weeds. Leaving a club for a better conditioned one that you’re willing to pay for is a personal choice. Leaving a club that cut maintenance to the detriment of basic playability is something else.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2022, 06:17:47 AM »
It's so different here in Florida where our golf club is part of a gated community of 893 homes. We still belong even though it has been 14 years since we have played golf because we have family and dear friends who live in the community.
Lived Chicago, now Jupiter, Fl, was a 4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 3 back, wrist, shoulder surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, I don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2022, 07:59:09 AM »
 8)


Obviously at some point price impacts most of us but for me the worst thing is lack of competition. Given it's the only sport left for me where I can be competitive at some level , "gotta have a game".  I see this at every level at golf clubs, whether it be a weekly womens' league , junior events or "skins game" that runs weekly.


In Philadelphia we have the GAP Team Matches every spring and it is a wonderful three week season where you play competitive matches against other clubs in the area. It's quite unique and many have enjoyed it over the years.


At the club level , it's great to know three times a week you just have to call in and tell someone you are "in" for the noon or early morning game. Sure beats traveling around with the same foursome trying to find a slot!

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2022, 08:48:21 AM »
As Joe T says, it’s all about value. 




I’m willing to pay a lot for a club that offers value.  But if I couldn’t play as much as I do now, or the conditions decline, or the pace of play went bad, or the management changed for the worse, or whatever, the the value declines and I’d move on.




I’ve changed memberships several times over the last 40 years.  A couple of times it was to add value, but a couple of other times, it was because of decline value where I was. 
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2022, 11:09:49 AM »
I have contemplated leaving a club but only left because I moved. It would take a lot to get me to leave my present away club. However if the dues continue to climb i might join another one.
Tom Williamsen
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2022, 12:06:25 PM »
I get the impression that in the US that changes in how a club is run is a major factor in a lot of decisions. Over here (Scotland and perhaps the UK) I think it is usually down to an individuals circumstances and rarely due to any changes in how a club is run. With most clubs being members clubs there is generally a continuity on how they tend to operate. Certainly from my own perspective I've been a member of 5 clubs and currently I'm not a member anywhere. The reasons for leaving were moving location (4 times) and injury (once).


Niall

Ed Brzezowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2022, 02:56:55 PM »
Paddleball and pickleball. I have never witnessed two made up  sports suck up so much of club finances.
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2022, 04:05:50 PM »
Paddleball and pickleball. I have never witnessed two made up  sports suck up so much of club finances.


Things like that ensure I will never join a “country club” again. Just golf clubs for me.
Tom Williamsen
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2022, 04:13:49 PM »
Paddleball and pickleball. I have never witnessed two made up  sports suck up so much of club finances.


Aren’t all sports made up?  ;D

Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2022, 11:49:06 PM »
We were just sold from essentially a sole proprietor to a business entity with a portfolio of courses, an entity that is cozying up to some less than desirable characters.  I hope in a year or two I still won't be able to answer your question, but we'll see. 

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2022, 08:17:52 AM »
I spoke to two friends recently that said the club was taking on too many new members making it too crowded

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2022, 09:03:08 AM »
Like any broken relationship you start to see problems inside the smallest issues. It makes the break easier if you can make yourself believe you were wronged.

Peter Sayegh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What would cause you to leave your club?
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2022, 09:16:47 AM »
Availability of tee times and/or price of the membership. I'd swallow poor conditions...for 18 months only.

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