[Ronald Montesano]

Andy Staples sent this interview last week, the same day that BuffaloGolfer's database imploded. The host spent a week rebuilding the site, and it is back up and running. I enjoyed The Staple and The Match and look forward to his upcoming work.

https://wp.me/p20nYT-88c

[Tim Martin]

I think I can speak for the majority of posters when I say thank god The Buffalo Golfer is up and running so that you can continue to link your articles/interviews through GCA. The practice at this point is seemingly unending.

[Michael Chadwick]

I'll echo Tim but in a different way. It's perfectly appropriate to have your website, twitter, Instagram handles all linked in your profile signature, but posting on the Discussion Group for the purposes of self-promotion is not appreciated. 

[Ronald Montesano]

Tim and Michael...Neither of you has any clue what you are talking about.

Tim, you continue to embarrass yourself by singling me out for whatever mission you have.

Michael, there is not one shred of self-promotion in anything that I do.

I do not make one dime off my articles for GolfWRX nor BuffaloGolfer. I write and interview for the benefit of people like you. I volunteer my time with the Walter J. Travis Society for people like you.

The fact that neither of you would reach out to me via DM (Tim actually has me blocked, which tell me all that I need to know about him) shows that you are actually engaged in self-promotion.

Funny story: I played golf with Tim at CCTroy and Copake Country Club. We had a great time. Didn't see each other for eight years, and now he spends as much time as possible taking shots at me. I don't understand his thinking.

Guys, I'm sorry for your delusions, but I won't stop posting pieces that I or others write/edit, that are of interest to the Discussion Group of Golf Club Atlas. Next time you have an issue with something on a public thread, consider writing to the thread author first.

[Tim Martin]

Ron-If anyone should be embarrassed it’s you for your continued shameless self promotion. It’s sad that you don’t see that although actually I think you do but just can’t help yourself.

[Niall C]

Ron


Thanks for the link. I can't access it at the moment due to device/server I'm currently on but will look at it once I get back to base. I don't know of Andy Staples or his work so will be interested to learn more about what he is up to.


In terms of what is appropriate to put on this website, I think the main point is whether it is to do with GCA and therefore adds to the discussion on here. Whether you make money out of it is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned. After all, we have many members of this site who have written books on golf architecture and have promoted them or sold them via this site. I'd imagine they got recompensed for their efforts and I sincerely hope they did. 


That said, it's not my website and not for me to police but what I can say is that I'm not offended by you plugging your own site and its content.


Niall

[David Bowen]

As Niall said, several members of the DG over the years have sold books and offered up articles and people gobbled them up happily.  Almost every comment from a professional in the architecture or construction business is, to some extent, involved in self-promotion when making comments on a public website.  No one has a problem with that or expressed outrage before since its all a learning and sharing exercise.  The site owners have not policed content other than bad behavior.


I don't know Ron, Tim or Michael, but Ron's piece involved "the frank discussion of architecture."  Michael and Tim's comments did not.  I have no problem with the former, but am mildly offended by the latter. 


Keep posting Ron.  It was nice to read about Andy Staples and his work.


Apologies for my non-architecture comments. 

[Michael Chadwick]

Ronald and I had a productive and respectful private discussion.


Adding more detail to the opinion I hold--which I readily admit was not made clear or tactfully enough in my above comment--is that the Discussion Group is best served if the posted topics prioritize generating further discussion on this board, and is not used as a repository for pasting in links to direct audience traffic to other websites or social media platforms. Referencing and even linking content elsewhere can be appropriate, but my own personal preference be that a thread originate with the aim of inviting commentary and participation and not just clicks elsewhere. I'm not singling Ronald out at this point. Anyone can look back and see he has generated fruitful topics. It's something I myself need to consider with the write ups I enjoy doing on Instagram, and I'm sure is something other writers and golf professionals participating on this site are mindful of when posting.


But, to clarify my point, a point that is purely preferential and need not be shared with others, I think the value of the Discussion Group would become diluted were it to be a landing page of links taking us elsewhere, like Reddit's structure, as opposed to being focused on furthering conversation within each thread.   


     

[Ronald Montesano]

I appreciate Michael's willingness to engage in said discussion.

I'll take the responsibility for assuming/presuming that everyone knew that my threads with links were initiated to foment back-and-forth. From now on, when I post a link to a piece that I or another has written, or to a thread on social media, it shall not walk alone.

I'll clarify my intentions from the get-go, and we will be a better DG for it.

One of the starters at The Match messaged me today, to let me know that Brooks Koepka was on the course, filming an episode for some Netflix show. I'll be interested to hear what he has to say. Brooks will certainly take different lines than I did!!

[PCCraig]

Ron -


Just post your articles and interview's on both GolfWrx and GCA. If it pertains to GCA, and the goal is to stimulate discussion, just post the whole thing. I'd love to read an interview with Andy Staples, but I want to read and discuss it here.


If you start a thread and it only includes a link to a GolfWrx article, I'm not going to click on it as it's clickbait.

[Michael Moore]

Ron -

Your Twitter and Instagram links on the other thread require me to create an account. Is it worth it to see your photos?

[John Kavanaugh]

Ron -

Your Twitter and Instagram links on the other thread require me to create an account. Is it worth it to see your photos?

How else can you name the cats?

[Ronald Montesano]

Michael...DM sent.

#####################

Clickbait definition: content whose main purpose is to attract attention and encourage visitors to click on a link to a particular web page.
[/color]

#####################

I think that we are all a bit smarter than that definition. The following reference familiarizes us with an adage many of us know, attributed to US Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart.

"Nico Jacobellis, manager of the Heights Art Theatre in the Coventry Village neighborhood of Cleveland Heights, Ohio, was charged with two counts of possessing and exhibiting an obscene film"[/size][/font]

Stewart opined "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."[/size][/font]


#####################

Although all links are clickbait, some clickbait is more harmful than others. Some links take us to sites not promised by the lead-in. Other links download files to our device. Still others take us to an endless parade of slides that pretend to give us what we thought we were getting, but never do.

I promise that all links posted by me have taken you to promised sites, not compelled you to download a file, nor taken you to an endless parade of anything other than words.

As such, I discourage all members of GCA from posting any links to anything on the internet, lest it be deemed clickbait by our voluntary force of internet police.

[John Kavanaugh]

I was impressed by Staples love of Huntercombe. I would however caution using the term Hidden Gem about such an admired course. It comes off elitist.

[Tim Martin]

Clickbait definition: content whose main purpose is to attract attention and encourage visitors to click on a link to a particular web page.

The above definition fits Ron’s MO perfectly. He links on GCA to Golf WRX, as well as The Buffalo Golfer website, Instagram and Twitter page when he writes an article, takes pictures or interviews someone. Neither this or his other current thread about PGA National/PGA Village which links to the Buffalo Golfer Instagram and Twitter page has any discussion developing. If Ron is being honest about his intent he should do better at initiating some dialogue besides just posting the links and a few nebulous comments. He remains my favorite GCA martyr and now that the Easter season has ended he should come down from the cross, at least temporarily.    

[SL_Solow]

I choose to avoid the "controversy" over Ron's posts.  I suggest that those who are offended contact Ran.  Regarding this post, I have had the pleasure of spending some time discussing our favorite topic with Andy.  He is one of the good guys and is sensitive not only to issues regarding the issues pertaining to individual courses but he is also cognizant of the interaction between golf design, the environment and surrounding communities.  The interview is nicely done given its brevity.

[Mike Hendren]

I attended a whizzing contest and a golf course architecture discussion broke out.


Mike

[Ronald Montesano]

Andy Staples Interview in a Parallel Universe


Andy Staples Mike Cirba spent a tremendous amount of energy over the past two years on the subject of Dorset Field Club and his research is presented today reworking the former Squire course at PGA National into two separate iterations: The Match and The Staple.What drew him to Dorset PGA National as a a subject mattera site?  Simple: the opportunity to build a better golf course, nay, two better golf courses. their claim, as they state on their web site, that it is “the oldest, continuously operating golf course in the United States.” As Mike Andy noted to me in an email, “They should expect some scrutiny of that claim.” "Following up on the email about PGA National to make sure it made it to your inbox!"Fair enough Follow up he did! Mike Andy was skeptical diligent in the absence of proof following up and answering the questions, as you can see in this considerable effort:

https://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/interview-with-andy-staples-golf-architect/

I vouchsafe that you shall fancy his turn of phrase as he beckons you to accompany him along a trace of what happened to Sancho Panza, aka Squire, and what may loom in the offing for Mr. Staples, aka The Real Deal. Thanks To SL Solow for his kind words.

#####

In this parallel universe, there is a lengthy lead-in (a la the other RM) and then a link to an informative piece. This is the tack that I shall take from here forward. I figure that no one has called RM's links clickbait, and this should remove that onerous prestidigitation from my amalgamations.

[Mike Sweeney]

Thanks for bringing the Staples interview to light here. Never heard of him and he has some very interesting projects. The Match Play course seems like great spot for a .... Match

[PCCraig]

Ron -


For the love of God, man.


Feel free to share your complete work with us. I'd love to read it. Honestly.


Some random lead in paragraph is STILL not going to make me (or many others) click on your link to Golf WRX. If I wanted to visit that site, I would, on my own.


Just lay it all out there...are you getting some cash or points or likes or what by getting people to click over to your articles there? I don't understand it.


You seem like a fine guy, and I appreciate your love of golf course architecture writing, I just don't understand your stubbornness and insistence that we all should redirect our eyes and efforts from golfclubatlas.com - the website we willfully visited.


Don't you think Andy Staples would rather have his interview posted here, on a golf course architecture website filled with GCA fans, than one that focuses on golf equipment or whatever GOLFWRX is?


By the way, the main difference between your lead in and Ran's lead in is Ran isn't trying to get us to visit his other website to drive clicks there. He's just sharing the published work, hosted on the same site.

[Sean_A]

I rarely click links and that is why I am very judicious in the links I provide in my posts. That said, I am not bothered if people want to practice linking. I don't understand the angst. Live and let live.

Ciao

[Neal_Meagher]

Pretty much no one reading this, these days, would have a clue of who I am am or what rock I crawled out from underneath.  That's ok.  But I can say that I had the privilege of first meeting Andy Staples 25 years ago when he joined the the SF Bay Area golf design firm of Graves & Pascuzzo, where we worked together for three of the twelve years that I was with that company.


Andy has a true passion, zeal and energy for golf design that I only wish I had.  Golf has been a huge part of his life from the day his dad, Jim, put a club in his hands.  He truly understands how to turn those purely wishful visions that so many on this site have of golf design, into reality.  But it is his outgoing personality and zest for golf that has, and will going forward, allow him to compete for and obtain ever-increasing projects of high quality and recognition within the industry.


Andy's potential in the golf design business is unlimited.  He will one day become the President of the American Society of Golf Course Architects, of which he has been a member since 2011 when he was just 39. So, having known him as a friend and co-worker from so long ago, it is gratifying to see that his hard work and efforts are being acknowledged by so many for his good work and inventive projects.

[Mike Bodo]

Andy's restovation of Meadowbrook CC, just outside of Detroit, is an amazing work of art and a brilliant homage to some of WPJ's finest work in the U.K. For the U.K. GCA contingent, check out the green complexes and surrounds on the link to the Fried Egg YouTube video below and you'll see what I mean. There are obvious platitudes being paid to both Huntercombe and Sunningdale.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5Oo6Vm3Fck



I'm eagerly looking forward to seeing the work he and his team did at Olympia Fields -  South, another WPJ U.S. classic. I want him in a bad way to work his magic at Sylvania Country Club (yet, another WPJ course), where I'm a member and return the green complexes and surrounds there to what they were when the course opened in 1916 and take liberties where warranted.


Love me some square greens or, as Huey Lewis famously penned decades ago, "It's Hip to Be Square."   

[Ronald Montesano]

The link that i posted for the Staples interview was for my site, BuffaloGolfer.Com. Not GolfWRX, nor any other site for which I write.

Perhaps the first 999 times I mentioned this were overlooked, so I'll say it again: I receive zero anythings for clicks. I post interviews, articles, and links to photos here for YOU, not for me.

I do appreciate the ones who have reached out to me via DM, as well as the ones brave enought to post their support on this thread, publicly.

For the haters among us, I just don't get you. You produce nothing of substance for the site, but you are quick to pull the trigger on an unsubstantiated attack. That's so lonely.

[SL_Solow]

Mike, Andy's work at OFCC South is ongoing; very little done prior to this year.  It would be nice to have you visit Chicago as there is a lot going on and a lot to see but wait awhile if you want to see the finished product.

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