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MCirba

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Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« on: April 10, 2022, 01:40:12 PM »
Played a course in Quakertown, PA called Fox Hollow yesterday with Joe Bausch whose 15th hole is a 630 yard par five that proceeds on a long downhill run for the first 500 or so yards before turning about 110 degrees to the right around tall trees for a steeply uphill approach.   The course was originally designed by Albert Cirino (9 holes) and was expanded in the late 1960s by William and David Gordon.   I believe the latter pair are responsible for the somewhat unique hole.   


As seen in the picture, the tee is in the top right just off the green of the par three 14th.   Anyone else know of similar holes with a greater than 90 degree swing?

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Matt_Cohn

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2022, 05:11:51 PM »
13 at Oklahoma City Golf and Country Club goes over 90° by the time you get to the green.



Ben Malach

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2022, 06:13:34 PM »
There is one of these type of holes on every course designed by Gary Browing and Les Furber. They are normally a hole that want to change the most in on the course.
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Edward Glidewell

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2022, 08:01:53 PM »
I think the most famous one is the RTJ par 5 at the Dunes Club in Myrtle Beach, which swings around a lake.


There's a par 5 at Bulls Bay with a severe dogleg just before the green, but I'm not sure it's more than 90 degrees.





Ronald Montesano

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2022, 09:07:31 PM »
I believe there are two directions to go with these hole sort.

The first is: ample room to cut the dogleg. This renders the 90degree+ unimportant.

The second is: blocked by trees and compelled to reach a certain point, in order to make the turn. These are ridiculous.

18 at Leatherstocking is the most memorable that I know. It's a 180 degree hole from tee to green. I suspect that Bryson or Kyle could make the carry from tee to green in one.
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Phil Burr

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2022, 10:10:08 PM »
These holes are tough to judge unless they are par 4s.  because par fives give the player multiple chances to alter the angle.  #13 at The Dunes bends well over 90 degrees if played to the deepest point of the dogleg but properly played shots that required forced carries over the marsh decrease the angle.


The most extreme angle I can think of is #14 at Orange Hills CC in CT (Tim Martin - agree?).  425 from the tips.  Dogleg is so severe that the further you hit your tee shot the longer your second.

Jim Sherma

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2022, 10:22:05 PM »
Mike - haven’t thought about Fox Hollow in 25 years or so. Not a good hole for pace of play or much of anything else. I always played with guys who tried going for it and the tried finding their balls in the woods around the green. I guess the loss of Locust Valley is hitting you hard when in the area. I know I miss it a lot.

Tim Leahy

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2022, 04:16:55 AM »
The 18th at Koolau(NLE) in Hawaii was more than 90 degrees if you went for the green blind.
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2022, 11:56:27 AM »
Number six at Musgrove Mill is a 365 yard par four that doglegs as much as nay hole I've played.


« Last Edit: April 11, 2022, 12:44:20 PM by Tommy Williamsen »
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2022, 11:57:01 AM »
The 16th at Lakewood in NJ sure bends plenty!
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2022, 12:11:21 PM »
Id bet the 16th at Lake Course is the most high profile hole in this category in that it probably feels like it bending that much, even if only about 60 degrees

Lou_Duran

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2022, 12:41:38 PM »
I first played golf on a course (Seneca Hills near Tiffin, OH) with a short par 4 protected on the left by solid woods and a creek with the green sited close to the end of the tall trees at an angle varying from 90° to something less than that depending on how far past the corner you could hit the drive before running into the creek or other obstacles.  It was a truly bad hole, but not all that hard- 5i, W.


I've played a number of boomerang or "cape" holes, but very few modern courses seem to feature sharp doglegs.  Invariably, most holes turn slightly right or left without calling on the golfer to move the ball with the orientation of the hole.  A hole like #3 at Colonial CC which required most of the pros to turn the ball right-to-left or end up in the wiry rough is a rarity in modern golf (though Bruce Lietzke used to hit a towering banana left over the trees and somehow find the short grass past the bunkers). 

Dan_Callahan

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2022, 12:58:39 PM »
The 11th at Tobacco Road has a pronounced bend around a chasm. Feels like if you went to the end of the fairway off the tee, you'd have more than a 90 degree turn toward the green. And the 2nd at Royal New Kent definitely bends more than 90 degrees.

Bill Crane

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2022, 01:25:14 PM »
Par five 18th at Cranberry Valley, Harwich - Cape Cod Mass.
More than a fish hook.
Takes over half a dozen rounds to get a sense of where to really hit it.
Actually, an interesting piece of land typical of the geomorphology of Cape Cod.     
I should probably post on the Geoffrey Cornish thread.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2022, 01:31:21 PM by Bill Crane »
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Bill Seitz

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2022, 01:13:05 PM »
The 18th at Harvester has more than 90 degrees of dogleg depending on whether you go for it in two or play it as a three shot par 5.  The inside of the bend is all water, so if you go for it in two, the angle could be a little less than 90 degrees.  If you play all the way around the lake, it's more than 90 degrees.

Tim Martin

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2022, 06:34:27 PM »
These holes are tough to judge unless they are par 4s.  because par fives give the player multiple chances to alter the angle.  #13 at The Dunes bends well over 90 degrees if played to the deepest point of the dogleg but properly played shots that required forced carries over the marsh decrease the angle.


The most extreme angle I can think of is #14 at Orange Hills CC in CT (Tim Martin - agree?).  425 from the tips.  Dogleg is so severe that the further you hit your tee shot the longer your second.


Phil-I agree on Orange Hills!!! It’s been a while since I’ve been there and a lot of improvements have been made. I would add the 2nd hole at Marion Golf Club in Massachusetts.

archie_struthers

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2022, 08:05:01 AM »
 8)


Hello guys!  We used to play a course named Freeway in Sicklerville , NJ back in the 70's and 80's...alas it no longer exists :'(


Had a par five that took a super sharp left with big trees protecting the short cut (#11?)   You had to hit it right center and lay back a bit to go at the green in two. Trees were really high.  Not the greatest hole or so I thought but certainly I remember it vividly for the strategy..so maybe not so bad

Michael Felton

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2022, 08:18:35 AM »
The 18th at Harvester has more than 90 degrees of dogleg depending on whether you go for it in two or play it as a three shot par 5.  The inside of the bend is all water, so if you go for it in two, the angle could be a little less than 90 degrees.  If you play all the way around the lake, it's more than 90 degrees.


Bay Hill's 6th hole is virtually 180 if you go all the way around the outside of it, but it's virtually straight if your name is Bryson.

Tim Gavrich

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2022, 12:42:43 PM »
How about this one, from the newly-renamed Goldeneye Club near Lake Geneva, WI:
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2022, 01:57:24 PM »
Does any course have more unusual dog-legs than the Dunes Golf and Beach Club?






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Jim Moeller

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2022, 02:50:07 PM »
The 3rd at Nabnasset Lake in Westford, MA is nuts.

Daryl "Turboe" Boe

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2022, 03:48:42 PM »
Number six at Musgrove Mill is a 365 yard par four that doglegs as much as nay hole I've played.





When I saw this thread I figured this hole would be mentioned.  Great hole, but the amount of dog-leg has decreased since the two of us first started playing out there.  When that big oak tree inside the dog-leg first went away after the lightning strike stared its demise the corner was not quite as daunting and protected.   Still a great hole.   Nice picture.  Did you buy a drone since I last saw you?
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Jeff Schley

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Re: Dogleg holes greater than 90 degrees
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2022, 03:10:22 AM »
The 3rd at Nabnasset Lake in Westford, MA is nuts.

Wait what?  Really? How far is this hole and how long does it take to play?  Is it heavily treed along the inside I'm guessing?
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