[Jason Thurman]

Discuss.

[mike_beene]

4 reminds me of 11 at TOC. 6 is only place I can think of you hit over people on purpose. What did 6 look like with the old pond?

[jeffwarne]

4 reminds me of 11 at TOC. 6 is only place I can think of you hit over people on purpose. What did 6 look like with the old pond?

Courtesy of Daisports.
scroll down and right.
6 had a creek crossing, not really in play-a supposed "more attractive" Redan

[Matthew Rose]

[cary lichtenstein]

Both 4 and 6 are excellent and tough par 3's

[Tim_Weiman]

Jeff warne:


Thanks for posting that collection of pictures. It is hard to look at them and believe all the changes over the years have made things better.

[Jason Thurman]

Is there anything about 6 that plays like a redan today? I guess some of the bounces around the back right corner, maybe, are fractionally redan-ish in spirit.


I think they're both wonderfully elastic for only having two tees. There seems to be a lot of ability to change the character and challenge from day to day just by moving pins.

[jeffwarne]

Hard to make out the picture from daisports, but it appears a bit redanlike after all in that photo.
Looks like about the time they dammed up the creek the green and greensite had been altered to eliminate any chance of it playing like a redan.
Or perhaps it never did.
Would love t see a clearer picture of 6 from the earliest version

[Wayne_Kozun]

When they play the tees from the back with a right pin, #4 is wicked hard.  It is about 240 yards and that is not a deep green.

[Mike Hendren]

Jeff warne:


Thanks for posting that collection of pictures. It is hard to look at them and believe all the changes over the years have made things better.

So I take it you are a fan of the small tongues on the 4th and 9th greens.  Please explain why. 


All the best,
Mike

[Keith Williams]

Not to threadjack off the Par 3 focus, but I have always found that old photo of #5 green utterly captivating.


-Keith

[Tim_Weiman]

Jeff warne:


Thanks for posting that collection of pictures. It is hard to look at them and believe all the changes over the years have made things better.

So I take it you are a fan of the small tongues on the 4th and 9th greens.  Please explain why. 


All the best,
Mike

I just think it gives the greens character and very different pin location alternatives.

[JJShanley]

WRT 4: MacKenzie's comments on other attempts at an Eden hole strike me as interesting. "There have been scores of copies of this famous hole but there is none that has the charm and thrill of the original. Most copies are failures..." You can refer back to the photo for the rest of the comment.


Is this a criticism of MacDonald and Raynor?


I hadn't ever thought of the 8th green as having drawn inspiration from 17th at Muirfield.

[Jason Thurman]

I wonder if those tongues looked as jarring in real life as they do in pics. A lot of those pics look pretty funky... 8 green doesn't seem to have changed much, for example, but looks narrow to me in those old pics. I just wonder if the scale is a little distorted, and I'm inclined to give some benefit of doubt for funkiness to guys who pulled off things like the 7th green at Crystal Downs.


I'm just curious about these front 9 par 3s because they're sorta straightforward in appearance and, in my mind, have less "identity" Augusta's other holes. I think that's a pretty normal thing for par 3s that lack water and lots of other features, as these do. I'm trying to figure out what, if anything, separates them from the average par 3 since they're components of a world-class course.

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