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Dave Duevel

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2022, 01:48:36 PM »
Town & Country Club (St Paul, MN) has both back to back par 3s (#2 and #3) as well as a par 3 finishing hole.


Perhaps the most interesting part, though, is that the last 5 holes are 3-5-5-5-3.

Mark Kiely

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2022, 06:08:01 PM »
Was reminded of another instance of this in Southern California when I got an opportunity to return to The Saticoy Club (formerly Saticoy Country Club) this week. Nos. 9 and 10 are both par 3s; nine plays significantly uphill, ten next plays even farther downhill.
My golf course photo albums on Flickr: https://goo.gl/dWPF9z

Matt_Cohn

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2022, 02:50:37 AM »
If all the various oddities folks seek examples of on this site, par-3 opening holes seem to be the rarest.

Jonathan Cummings

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2022, 07:32:17 AM »
If all the various oddities folks seek examples of on this site, par-3 opening holes seem to be the rarest.


Talk about rare.  The East Course at Belleair CC for years ended in a par 3 and a par 3!  #17 and #18 were both 1 shotters and this for a full size course.

A.G._Crockett

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2022, 08:25:12 AM »
If all the various oddities folks seek examples of on this site, par-3 opening holes seem to be the rarest.
I would suspect that this is, at least in part, due to pace of play issues with tee time intervals. 


It's a subject of great interest to me right now because UNC Finley (Cobb/Fazio) is going to undergo a major project beginning in October by Love that will, among other things, have the current par 3 12th hole become #1. 


As an experiment, I kept a clock on my group the last time I played there; three of us, all single digit.  My two partners both hit the green; one made birdie, the other had a tap in par.  I missed in the fringe, and had a relatively easy two putt par.  So a total of 8 shots, 5 of them with a putter.  Nobody in the deep bunker on the left, nobody in the hazards on the right or behind.  It took us exactly 8 minutes.  So that's good, right?  We were two minutes below the 10 minute intervals between tee times...


Now imagine a foursome in which nobody hits the green, and their tee shots DO end up in bunkers and hazards, and each player has to hit a second shot with a club other than a putter.  I think it's possible that it could take that group close to twice as long as it took us to play the hole, and that's probably a much more typical outcome, especially on the first hole of the day, than what happened to us on our 12th hole of the day.  And we won't even get into groups that are going to hit two off the first tee.

Get a handful of foursomes that take in excess of 10 minutes to play a par three opening hole, and your tee times are screwed up for the entire day.  So I suspect that a par 3 opener would only function well at a course that didn't get a lot of play to begin with, and/or doesn't have tee times at all.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2022, 05:56:26 PM »
Victoria Golf Club (the one in BC designed by AV Macan) has consecutive par 3s at 8-9.  And they are pretty spectacular along the Pacific Ocean with views of Mt Olympus in Washington state.  Jeff Mingay would know more of the back story.

SL_Solow

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2022, 06:58:50 PM »
Ira, its not a closing hole but apropos of your comment about Congressional Medinah 17 is a challenger for the greatest number of redesigns.  We shall see how the latest iteration fares.

Jonathan Cummings

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2022, 06:46:58 AM »
Just played Bradenton CC.  Ross 1924, redone several times since.  Very enjoyable course with particularly interesting putting surfaces.  It currently ends in a par 3, in fact, it has quite an unusual ending - par 5,3,5,3.  Not sure if that is original - I suspect not.

Niall C

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2022, 07:57:44 AM »
Cullen has so many par 3's that some of them are bound to be consecutive but haven't a scorecard to hand. Not that it really matters. It works OK provided there is variety - that's variety in design and not just whether its a different par. Of course, Cullen has no pretensions to be a championship course and has nothing like the amount of land required to be so, and in my book it is all the better for it.


Someone provided a link to a previous thread on the subject and Rich mentioned his home course Aberdour which starts with two 3's. They are two distinct par 3's and are what you really remember about the course. The first sits on a spit of land below the clubhouse and is crying out for a golf hole to be placed on it, while the second plays across the beach/shore to a perched green. There is no way you wouldn't want to use the spit of land for a golf hole and once you make that decision I can't think of any easier way to incorporate it into the routing. Thankfully par sequences weren't a big thing back in the day.


Niall

MCirba

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2022, 08:32:42 AM »

Close to my house there are three courses that were designed with both 9's ending with par 3's. Hershey CC - West (Maurice McCarthy 1930 - original routing), West Shore CC (original 9 ? - taken to 18 by Ed Tabor '40s)  and a public course called Fairview GC (both holes are similar downhill shots with a lake between the greens - it's an awkward area around the clubhouse that would be tough to get two holes away and two holes back to - this is a solution that seems to work and given the footprint they had to work with I'm not sure there was something better).



Jim,

The first nine holes at West Shore were designed by Scottish emigre George Morris, nephew of Old Tom.

Let's play some golf this year.
Mike
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Ira Fishman

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2022, 10:43:53 AM »
Ira, its not a closing hole but apropos of your comment about Congressional Medinah 17 is a challenger for the greatest number of redesigns.  We shall see how the latest iteration fares.


Shel,


Congressional is 10 minutes from our house. I have played it in a couple of configurations. Neither put it high on my list despite the incredible conditioning of the greens. I have heard good things about the renovation. I will have to bug a friend for a round one of these days.

Mark Kiely

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2022, 02:31:38 PM »
Played another of these last weekend: Shadow Hills (South course - Lee Schmidt) in Indio, CA has consecutive par 3s at 16 & 17.
My golf course photo albums on Flickr: https://goo.gl/dWPF9z

Mark Pritchett

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2022, 02:52:49 PM »
Love the back to back 3’s at Newport CC


#13 and #14

Cal Seifert

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2022, 04:36:41 PM »
North Fork Country Club on the east end of Long Island has 2 pairs of sequential par 3's.  6 &7 and 13 & 14.  Holes 6 & 7 were designed by Donald Ross and holes 13 & 14 were designed by Deverreaux Emmet 10 years later.

Doug Wright

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Re: Beginning/Ending/Middle Sequential Par 3s
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2022, 05:30:23 PM »
It seems Donald Ross wasn't afraid of back to back par 3s. I just played Beverly (Mass.) Golf & Tennis Club (Ross, 1910), and it's 11th (245 yards downhill) and 12th (196 yards uphill) holes are really stout, excellent par 3s that play in opposite directions. The 11th finishes right at the clubhouse; I don't know if the routing has changed; theoretically that could make the starting and finishing holes par 3s...
Twitter: @Deneuchre

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