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Carl Johnson

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #250 on: May 15, 2022, 04:43:55 PM »
Alan Shipnuck's book about Phil is officially released Tue., May 17, 2022.  Might be interesting.  Amazon describes it as "a juicy and freewheeling biography."  We'll see.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 04:47:17 PM by Carl Johnson »

Niall C

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #251 on: May 15, 2022, 06:58:23 PM »
A friend visited the Tour's facility in FL recently and remarked about its space-age, opulent digs.  I think that Lefty's major issue has a bit to do with the benefits of the Tour flowing disproportionately to those who have relatively little to do with its success.


Notwithstanding his rhetorical excess, he may have a point.  Ultra-high salaries and benefits, enviable travel perks, and getting in as an integral part of "the show" by folks who don't hit a single shot probably wears thin on those who make their way primarily on the scores they achieve.  How a journeyman like Pat Burke does not enjoy pension benefits despite the many cuts he made prior to injury is puzzling.


The $Billions of past, current and projected revenues from all the data and images which are being created for at least 20+ years should be widely shared, IMO.  If the Tour was in the oil or healthcare business and restrained trade as it is attempting to do, I am sure that the federal government would have stepped in.  $1 Billion in non-pension obligated cash should be more than ample to meet a Black Swan possibly appearing in the future.  Are we not getting a bit tired of blaming Covid for all the crap that we are currently experiencing?  Thank God we haven't quite yet jumped the shark and started blaming Putin for this mess.


I will miss not seeing Michelson at Southern Hills.  He probably would not have made the cut, but it would have added a lot more interest.


Lou


I think I pretty much agree with everything you said in your post. Ken M suggested in an earlier post that without the cash reserves the Tour wouldn't have survived the pandemic which if it is true, is mind-boggling to me. What kind of overheads do they have ?


Niall   

Ken Moum

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #252 on: May 15, 2022, 08:20:23 PM »
Niall, I probably misspoke if I suggested the tour wouldn't have survived.


The article I saw said the reserves allowed the tour to pay purses and support charities at the events held without spectators.



Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

A.G._Crockett

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #253 on: May 15, 2022, 08:32:42 PM »
I have a hard time believing Phil is broke.  All the usual sites put his net worth at well over $100 mill., some at $200 or more.  Even if they were way off, seems like he would still be easily sitting in the tens of millions.

I'm guessing Phil has a bit of the Donald in him and once he has a grudge with someone (like Bones), he cuts em off.  He played for 4 years after letting him go and pretty sure he wasn't stiffing his new caddy...


P.S. Seems Occam's Razor need be applied here..

He'll be 52 next month, his best years are behind him but he can still play.  When someone comes along, aka the Saudis, and offers to pay him the same amount of money over the next 3-4 years, that took him the prior 30 years to earn as a pro ($94 million)...seems like a bit of a no-brainer if you have no concern for where the money is coming from.


1. Isnít it possible that Philís net worth is fine, but that he is strapped for liquidity.  Gambling losses are pretty liquid.


2. Phil has earned nearly $100m on the PGA Tour, however long it took. But he is a professional golfer, and is completely entitled to chase dollars, whether or not heís in financial trouble.  But it would have been far better if he had applied Occamís Razor in his statements or Shipnuck and the public.  Take the money and go away. Donít go away mad; just go away.

"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Kalen Braley

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #254 on: May 15, 2022, 09:35:25 PM »
I have a hard time believing Phil is broke.  All the usual sites put his net worth at well over $100 mill., some at $200 or more.  Even if they were way off, seems like he would still be easily sitting in the tens of millions.

I'm guessing Phil has a bit of the Donald in him and once he has a grudge with someone (like Bones), he cuts em off.  He played for 4 years after letting him go and pretty sure he wasn't stiffing his new caddy...


P.S. Seems Occam's Razor need be applied here..

He'll be 52 next month, his best years are behind him but he can still play.  When someone comes along, aka the Saudis, and offers to pay him the same amount of money over the next 3-4 years, that took him the prior 30 years to earn as a pro ($94 million)...seems like a bit of a no-brainer if you have no concern for where the money is coming from.


1. Isnít it possible that Philís net worth is fine, but that he is strapped for liquidity.  Gambling losses are pretty liquid.


2. Phil has earned nearly $100m on the PGA Tour, however long it took. But he is a professional golfer, and is completely entitled to chase dollars, whether or not heís in financial trouble.  But it would have been far better if he had applied Occamís Razor in his statements or Shipnuck and the public.  Take the money and go away. Donít go away mad; just go away.

AG,

1)  I'd be more inclined to believe the bad financial scenario due to Gambling losses if it hadn't occurred so long ago.  (2010-2014).  It would seem he would have had plenty of time to get that squared away given his total estimated earnings over his career are approx. $800 million when you include endorsements and other ventures. IMO, its nothing more than a red herring...

2)  As for the amount of money he could make from golf itself.  Phil likely weighed that he's only made $6 mill in prize money in the last 4 years on tour, and combined with his age, saw how he could make far far far more in the next 4.  So yes its no brainer from that perspective.

As for the rhetoric thou, leading up to the fallout, I think he just got caught up in the endless back and forth, and perhaps had a legit beef with the tour and wanted to stick it to them...and just opened his mouth one too many times.  But even then I can't say that wasn't deliberate either, as he would also have certainly known the new tour wouldn't last more than one season without some big names...

P.S.  I was a huge Phil fan up to this year, because he was always entertaining to both watch and hear his comments on those silly season events.  But new data requires an updated opinion...
« Last Edit: May 15, 2022, 09:42:39 PM by Kalen Braley »

Kevin_Reilly

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #255 on: May 15, 2022, 10:05:34 PM »
Gambling is a tough area under the tax law.  You can only deduct losses to the extent you have income (so, the worst result you can report on your tax return is break-even).  And you can't carry back or forward gambling losses.


So, if you have a great year and net $1 million in net gambling winnings, you pay full tax on that.  If the following year you lose $1 million, you get no benefit for it.  So, even though you "broke even" gambling in those two years, you would have paid $300K+ in federal taxes in year one, with no break given to you in year two.  In most areas of the tax law, there is a concept of "catching up" on a cumulative basis so you don't get taxes on zero economic gains like that (i.e. you only broke even over the two years), but there is no such thing with gambling wins/losses.


Of course a lot of gambling is under the table, but sports betting and similar conducted through licensed/regulated betting businesses is subject to W-2G reporting...so the winnings will be reported to the IRS.


Who knows what PM's situation is...the above is just a general comment about the taxation of gambling winnings/losses.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Tim Gavrich

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #256 on: May 16, 2022, 11:34:59 AM »
Love the way ECCO golf shoes are built and the way they fit. Love the BOA lacing system for my fee, too - not just in ECCO but FootJoy and other brands where it's available.


To throw a lesser-known brand out there, I've been really impressed by the pair of Duca del Cosma shoes I was sent a few weeks ago. Dutch company (Italian designer, hence the name) that does a lot of different styles but the model I have, Churchill, is more traditional-looking, which I prefer.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

cary lichtenstein

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #257 on: May 16, 2022, 12:42:52 PM »
I watched the movie, The Gambler, over the weekend. I totally recommend it. I know nothing about Phil's gambling habits other than what we have all read, but these addicted gamblers are addicts and can't control themselves. Who can say what his real losses were in those 4 years and subsequent to 2014? He had to sell his plane which I hear was dear to him and not paying his caddie, the latter is a rounding error to someone who makes $50 million per year.


My prediction is he will play in the LIV events with a huge guarantee and bonus to pay off his gambling debts. With losing all his sponsors and a limited upside earning potential at 51 years of age, this is only opportunity to get himself out of whatever debt he currently has and to put away some retirement money.


He needs to be barred from Vegas like John Daly was, but that will not stop a true gambler. I've been a big Phil fan for many years, and I only wish him well.
Lived Chicago, now Jupiter, Fl, was a 4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 3 back, wrist, shoulder surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, I don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms

John Kavanaugh

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #258 on: May 16, 2022, 01:31:28 PM »
The Tour has made Phil a martyr. Even other players who donít care for him personally will support him now behind the scenes. Or more publicly as did Sergio. Phil skipping the PGA this week is brilliant. The only winners this week are Shipnuck and the Saudiís. Congrats suckers!!!

Rob Marshall

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #259 on: May 16, 2022, 02:08:33 PM »
I watched the movie, The Gambler, over the weekend. I totally recommend it. I know nothing about Phil's gambling habits other than what we have all read, but these addicted gamblers are addicts and can't control themselves. Who can say what his real losses were in those 4 years and subsequent to 2014? He had to sell his plane which I hear was dear to him and not paying his caddie, the latter is a rounding error to someone who makes $50 million per year.


My prediction is he will play in the LIV events with a huge guarantee and bonus to pay off his gambling debts. With losing all his sponsors and a limited upside earning potential at 51 years of age, this is only opportunity to get himself out of whatever debt he currently has and to put away some retirement money.


He needs to be barred from Vegas like John Daly was, but that will not stop a true gambler. I've been a big Phil fan for many years, and I only wish him well.


He allegedly committed insider trading using a tip from a guy he owed a million dollar gambling debt too, so that he could pay off the debt. If he was flush why wouldn't he have written a check instead of committing a crime? As stated above, it is an addiction.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 04:39:05 PM by Rob Marshall »
"I used to get pissed at blowing leads until I quit having them" John Kavanaugh

Steve Lapper

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #260 on: May 16, 2022, 03:29:31 PM »
The Tour has made Phil a martyr. Even other players who donít care for him personally will support him now behind the scenes. Or more publicly as did Sergio. Phil skipping the PGA this week is brilliant. The only winners this week are Shipnuck and the Saudiís. Congrats suckers!!!


John,


   Unfortunately, you are sorely incorrect. Phil is laying low for a # of reasons, most of them directly related to both his past, present and future financial position and the current state of his game. Don't fret, you'll be seeing enough of your man-crush soon enough when the LIV Tour starts. Only then does Phil become whole and liquid enough to go back to the lifestyle he so desires. Alan Shipnuck was little more than the author that wrote the biography and carried Phils' no-filter message. Phil was, is, and will always be the brightest super nova of his own universe. He has only himself to blame.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 05:46:34 PM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Sean_A

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #261 on: May 16, 2022, 03:58:11 PM »
I watched the movie, The Gambler, over the weekend. I totally recommend it. I know nothing about Phil's gambling habits other than what we have all read, but these addicted gamblers are addicts and can't control themselves. Who can say what his real losses were in those 4 years and subsequent to 2014? He had to sell his plane which I hear was dear to him and not paying his caddie, the latter is a rounding error to someone who makes $50 million per year.


My prediction is he will play in the LIV events with a huge guarantee and bonus to pay off his gambling debts. With losing all his sponsors and a limited upside earning potential at 51 years of age, this is only opportunity to get himself out of whatever debt he currently has and to put away some retirement money.


He needs to be barred from Vegas like John Daly was, but that will not stop a true gambler. I've been a big Phil fan for many years, and I only wish him well.


He committed insider trading using a tip from a guy he owed a million dollar gambling debt too, so that he could pay off the debt. If he was flush why wouldn't he have written a check instead of committing a crime? As stated above, it is an addiction.

I didn't realize Phil was found guilty.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies & Crystal Downs

David_Tepper

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #262 on: May 16, 2022, 04:17:59 PM »
Sean -

I do not think PM was ever charged with a crime. I am 99.9% sure he was never convicted of one, but I do believe he was obliged to pay back the profits from the stock trade he made based on information/advice he received from Billy Walters.


https://www.golfdigest.com/story/phils-insider-trading-escape

DT

Rob Marshall

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #263 on: May 16, 2022, 04:37:29 PM »
I watched the movie, The Gambler, over the weekend. I totally recommend it. I know nothing about Phil's gambling habits other than what we have all read, but these addicted gamblers are addicts and can't control themselves. Who can say what his real losses were in those 4 years and subsequent to 2014? He had to sell his plane which I hear was dear to him and not paying his caddie, the latter is a rounding error to someone who makes $50 million per year.


My prediction is he will play in the LIV events with a huge guarantee and bonus to pay off his gambling debts. With losing all his sponsors and a limited upside earning potential at 51 years of age, this is only opportunity to get himself out of whatever debt he currently has and to put away some retirement money.


He needs to be barred from Vegas like John Daly was, but that will not stop a true gambler. I've been a big Phil fan for many years, and I only wish him well.


He allegedly committed insider trading using a tip from a guy he owed a million dollar gambling debt too, so that he could pay off the debt. If he was flush why wouldn't he have written a check instead of committing a crime? As stated above, it is an addiction.

I didn't realize Phil was found guilty.

Ciao


You are correct. I will edit.





"I used to get pissed at blowing leads until I quit having them" John Kavanaugh


John Kavanaugh

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #265 on: May 16, 2022, 11:41:20 PM »
The Tour has made Phil a martyr. Even other players who donít care for him personally will support him now behind the scenes. Or more publicly as did Sergio. Phil skipping the PGA this week is brilliant. The only winners this week are Shipnuck and the Saudiís. Congrats suckers!!!


John,


   Unfortunately, you are sorely incorrect. Phil is laying low for a # of reasons, most of them directly related to both his past, present and future financial position and the current state of his game. Don't fret, you'll be seeing enough of your man-crush soon enough when the LIV Tour starts. Only then does Phil become whole and liquid enough to go back to the lifestyle he so desires. Alan Shipnuck was little more than the author that wrote the biography and carried Phils' no-filter message. Phil was, is, and will always be the brightest super nova of his own universe. He has only himself to blame.


What I donít understand is why Philís personal life and faults are more newsworthy than mine or yours. The only answer I can come up with is money. People like your friend Alan writes where the most profit lies. Sad indeed, as all menís sins should have equal value as they all do cost our universe the same in the end. Phil is a man. Phil is a golfer. We are men and we are are golfers. Alan doesnít write about us. Why? Cause he donít get paid. If that ainít the definition of a little bitch, what is?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 11:43:34 PM by John Kavanaugh »

Erik J. Barzeski

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #266 on: May 16, 2022, 11:47:43 PM »
What I donít understand is why Philís personal life and faults are more newsworthy than mine or yours.
That might be one of the dumbest things typed on this site.

Maybe I don't care much about Phil's personal life or faults. Maybe you don't. But to be ignorant to why they're more "newsworthy"?
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

John Kavanaugh

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #267 on: May 17, 2022, 12:01:36 AM »
What I donít understand is why Philís personal life and faults are more newsworthy than mine or yours.
That might be one of the dumbest things typed on this site.

Maybe I don't care much about Phil's personal life or faults. Maybe you don't. But to be ignorant to why they're more "newsworthy"?


Profit does no more to condone sin than sin condones profit.


I wasnít completely disgusted until I learned that the book was being released during the week that Phil would be defending his PGA title.


No denying it. That is a profit motive.

Erik J. Barzeski

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #268 on: May 17, 2022, 12:07:58 AM »
Quote
What I donít understand is why Philís personal life and faults are more newsworthy than mine or yours.
I wasnít completely disgusted until I learned that the book was being released during the week that Phil would be defending his PGA title.
Those are two different things. Of course he'd try to make more of a profit, but pretending you think your life or my life or whomever's is equally as (non-)newsworthy as Phil's is just folly.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #269 on: May 17, 2022, 12:34:51 AM »
I get why people write about the failings of men for profit. I also get the enjoyment in watching others fail. What I donít understand is why Philís failings as a father and husband are any different than mine.


Like the old sayings goes. If you donít stand up for the others now they be coming after you next. Itís only a matter of time before some algorithm without a mortgage in Carmel can write a book about any of us for 10 cents a dance. That is scary indeed.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #270 on: May 17, 2022, 04:14:37 AM »
Sean -

I do not think PM was ever charged with a crime. I am 99.9% sure he was never convicted of one, but I do believe he was obliged to pay back the profits from the stock trade he made based on information/advice he received from Billy Walters.


https://www.golfdigest.com/story/phils-insider-trading-escape

DT

Thanks. I figured there was plea deal or something with no real punishment when I read the earlier post. I didn't follow the story.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies & Crystal Downs

John Kavanaugh

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #271 on: May 17, 2022, 07:38:09 AM »
What percentage of golfing bibliophiles who purchase the Phil book will also pick up the new SI swimsuit issue on this glorious day? How will you choose which to read first? Which would you be most embarrassed to be seen reading on a plane?


The classic rivalry between misogynists and quidnuncs is alive and well in golf town. You must all be proud. On with the juice!!!

Ken Moum

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #272 on: May 17, 2022, 09:01:10 AM »
What percentage of golfing bibliophiles who purchase the Phil book will also pick up the new SI swimsuit issue on this glorious day? How will you choose which to read first? Which would you be most embarrassed to be seen reading on a plane?


The classic rivalry between misogynists and quidnuncs is alive and well in golf town. You must all be proud. On with the juice!!!


John, you silly goose! Have you seen what Woke Illustrated is featuring for models?


None of us dirty old men will have more than a passing glance.
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #273 on: May 17, 2022, 09:08:04 AM »
I get why people write about the failings of men for profit. I also get the enjoyment in watching others fail. What I donít understand is why Philís failings as a father and husband are any different than mine.


Like the old sayings goes. If you donít stand up for the others now they be coming after you next. Itís only a matter of time before some algorithm without a mortgage in Carmel can write a book about any of us for 10 cents a dance. That is scary indeed.




I donít plan to buy Shipnuckís book, nor read it if someone offers me their copy.  I donít like biographies in general, and I find biographies of most athletes to be profoundly uninteresting, if only because excellence at a sport requires a fairly one dimensional approach to life. Mickelson is at least marginally different because heís such a strange individual.


All of that said, Mickelson is a public figure (Iím using that as a legal term, btw) and you, John, are not. Mickelson has profited immensely from a life in the public eye, far beyond the millions heís won on the golf course, and you, John, have not.  So to whatever extent the book will be about PMís failings as a ďfather and husbandĒ, I donít think it likely that they are ďcoming after you nextĒ. 


But I will promise you this: When an unauthorized biography of John Kavanaugh is written, published, and offered for sale, I will neither buy it, nor read a copy if one is offered to me free of charge.  In fact, they wonít be able to pay me to read a biography of you; I am that committed to your right to privacy.


(Disclaimer: I can be bought, so if I get a BIG offer to read the Kavanaugh exposť, Iíll take the money.  But I wonít feel good about it, and I promise not to enjoy or even believe what Iím reading about your life and times.)
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #274 on: May 17, 2022, 11:19:50 AM »
History has taught us never to underestimate the ability of them to come after you next.

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