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Mike Sweeney

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2022, 06:42:34 AM »
Useful info for those genuinely interested.
https://www.state.gov/reports/2020-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/

Thanks Bernie for posting this, and here is Saudi Arabia - https://www.state.gov/reports/2020-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/saudi-arabia/

It led me to this amazing story, and Khashoggi's sons are better men than me, but perhaps I can do better:

Sons pardon Saudi Arabian journalist Khashoggi’s killers

“Thus, we, sons of the martyr Jamal Khashoggi, announce that we forgive those who killed our father — May he rest in peace — for the sake of God Almighty, hopefully seeking reward with the Almighty,” the statement added.


https://gulfnews.com/world/gulf/saudi/sons-pardon-saudi-arabian-journalist-khashoggis-killers-1.71638261
"We need to allow people to make decisions for themselves and their local communities and families. Trying to tie everything into one package simply does not work." 5/11/21

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2022, 08:16:06 AM »
   Clearly all the super rich people have more money than they need, and almost all of them crave more.  That’s fine; they’re allowed. But please, please, don’t complain your taxes are too high.

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2022, 12:07:37 PM »
   Clearly all the super rich people have more money than they need, and almost all of them crave more.  That’s fine; they’re allowed. But please, please, don’t complain your taxes are too high.


Why not? Do you like taxes?

Lou_Duran

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2022, 03:14:56 PM »
The top 150 athletes in the major American sports make more than professional golfers
The NFL and NBA also make a lot more money than the PGA Tour.


Right.


According to reports I’ve read, the percentage of money going to the players is pretty close for the NBA, NFL and PGA Tour.


A.G.,


Regarding the Rules, Hoffman might like to know the Slugger White is the head rules official for the Saudi Tour and I am pretty sure he won’t be writing any new rules of play for them.


Perhaps Slugger might do better at marking the course.


Hoffman's incident is inexcusable and it happens more than on a rare occasion.  The rules, IMO, should be less about precedence and tradition and more about consistency and practice (what happens on the course).


As to Saudi Arabia, there is something in the Bible about casting the first stone.  We, on a regular basis, support the workings of any number of devils including some home-grown.  I have zero doubts that a good part of PM's motivation involves sticking it to the bureaucracy of the PGA Tour, the amount of total revenues it claims, and the perceived arrogance in its requirements of essentially independent contractors.  Competition is nearly always a good thing.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2022, 03:38:19 PM »
Excellent comment, Lou.

Jim_Coleman

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2022, 05:26:35 PM »
Mike:  Do I like taxes?  I like getting what I receive in return for paying them. Living in America.
  You might ask if I like paying for cars. I suppose I’d prefer not to, but cars cost money.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2022, 05:31:07 PM by Jim_Coleman »

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2022, 07:25:01 PM »

Sons pardon Saudi Arabian journalist Khashoggi’s killers


Almost certainly coerced. 

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2022, 07:38:11 AM »
Mike:  Do I like taxes?  I like getting what I receive in return for paying them. Living in America.
  You might ask if I like paying for cars. I suppose I’d prefer not to, but cars cost money.


Cars are priced efficiently. Taxes are not.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2022, 09:07:54 AM »
Coulda seen this one coming. Taxes…terrific. Only a few subjects are more touchy than saying #10 at Riviera is sort of, um…overrated, and that’s one of them. Well done fellas.


As for Phil. Whatever. Everyone likes sticking it to the man even if they’ve got more money than Croesus. That seems to be his end goal here. That he did it in an inefficient and arrogant way is vintage Phil. I’m unimpressed that some of these guys would embrace an offshoot venture from The Kingdom in order to make a point about their own home tour.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2022, 09:09:50 AM by Ben Sims »

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2022, 09:23:57 AM »
It seems to me Phil has raised some legitimate concerns, namely the large amount of cash that is sitting in the PGA's bank, and the ownership of the media rights. He's obviously not blind to the deplorable human rights record of the Saudi's and it appears he is using them as leverage to make the PGA change it's ways with a view to him remaining on that tour.


That's how things work in the real world and how negotiation is largely done. I don't see anything unethical about that. Furthermore he appears to have been successful. I note that Rory has come out with some cutting remarks aimed at Phil but I do wonder if in due course he will privately thank Phil once he realises how he has benefitted.


As an aside, I've been to numerous professional golf events and there is no-one that I've seen who comes close to Phil in terms of engaging with the gallery or his playing partners, whether they be amateur or professional.


Niall

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2022, 09:42:25 AM »
This has been happening for years in pro sports. Why is anyone surprised?

It's just golf's turn now:

1. Bobby Hull gets lured to play for the Winnepeg Jets of the upstart "WHL" in 1972.
2. Doug Flutie and Hershel Walker get lured by some real estate developer to the New Jersey Generals of the upstart "USFL" in 1984 or 5.
3. I am not well-versed in the ABA, but I think Julius Irving did the same thing in the 70's.
4. Pele, Carlos Alberto, Giorgio Canaglia, Frans Beckenbauer and others get lured to the upstart US pro soccer league in the mid-1970's.
(Footnote: my younger brother was a ball boy for the New York Cosmos when they played at Yankee Stadium.)

What do they ALL have in common? They failed due to lack of fan interest.
This Saudi golf thing is no different.

Dumb money always chases incumbent successes.
In the end, the market always wins.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2022, 09:45:40 AM by Ian Mackenzie »

Tim Martin

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2022, 10:16:47 AM »
The thing that I am most baffled by when it comes to Michelson is the scorched earth approach. He has always been pretty savvy when it comes to the media and governing bodies although more outspoken than most. He’s picked his battles with some controversy attached but nothing approaching the current situation. Depending on the way this thing shakes out it looks like he may get booted from the Tour as well as lose the captaincy of the 2025 USA Ryder Cup team. Those consequences along with the perception of him as a greedy sellout don’t seem to faze him now but I would think they will down the line. I wonder what happens to his status on the Senior Tour if he is persona non grata on the regular tour? Finally does anyone see his image changing for the better in the short to medium term?

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2022, 10:24:26 AM »
It seems to me Phil has raised some legitimate concerns, namely the large amount of cash that is sitting in the PGA's bank
That's PGA Tour, not PGA, and the cash reserves are both not nearly as big as Phil thinks they are, nor are they as big now since they helped fund the PGA Tour through the pandemic. That's what those reserves can be used to do - survive stuff like the pandemic while still putting on tournaments.

None of Phil's stated numbers are generally close. The Tour pays out a comparable portion of its revenues, not 26% like Phil claimed. Etc. He's full of shit on a lot of what he says. $2B in digital assets? How on earth does he arrive at that number? And do players own their images/video in other sports? No, because the league negotiates the terms of the TV deals (or teams do).

The list of BS from Phil goes on and on.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2022, 10:26:17 AM »
Tim


Just to continue playing devil's advocate but if Phil shames the PGA into doing something with the large wedge of cash sitting in the bank, and they end up giving a large chunk of it to charity, who do you think will get some of the credit for that ?


Niall

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2022, 10:29:26 AM »
Just to continue playing devil's advocate but if Phil shames the PGA into doing something
Please stop saying PGA. That's an almost entirely different organization from the PGA Tour.

And please read up on the "pile of cash." You seem to be taking Phil's word for it, for some reason.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2022, 10:30:49 AM »
Tim


Just to continue playing devil's advocate but if Phil shames the PGA into doing something with the large wedge of cash sitting in the bank, and they end up giving a large chunk of it to charity, who do you think will get some of the credit for that ?


Niall


Niall-I think the jury is out as to your question. It’s certainly possible that the scenario could play out as you outlined.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2022, 10:47:49 AM »
It is not inconceivable that Phil is an idiot.


Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2022, 11:20:53 AM »
  It’s inconceivable that he isn’t

John Kavanaugh

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2022, 11:49:23 AM »

As John alluded to, many of the worlds problems lies not in the have nots wanting more, but in convincing those who have more than they can possibly spend in 100 lifetimes that they have enough.


Kalen,


How much money is that? Use a guy living in California as an example. Round to the nearest 50 million without going over.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2022, 05:24:29 PM »
Mickelson, Poulter, Westwood, Stenson and Scott are all old guys with only Scott being under 45. No shock that they could be looking for a guaranteed fat payday before their swan song on the PGA Tour.

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2022, 05:32:08 PM »
Mickelson just issued and apology but it was taken out of context...............
"I used to get pissed at blowing leads until I quit having them" John Kavanaugh

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2022, 06:15:34 PM »
Hoo boy, KPMG is dropping Phil, effective immediately. That has to put a dent in Phil’s walking-around gambling money.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2022, 06:17:52 PM by BHoover »

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2022, 06:27:25 PM »
This has been happening for years in pro sports. Why is anyone surprised?

It's just golf's turn now:

1. Bobby Hull gets lured to play for the Winnepeg Jets of the upstart "WHL" in 1972.

This one probably had a good result for Canada as it brought teams in Edmonton, Winnipeg (came, went and now back) and Quebec City (whoops) to the NHL.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2022, 07:10:38 PM »
Hoo boy, KPMG is dropping Phil, effective immediately. That has to put a dent in Phil’s walking-around gambling money.

Wow.  I feel like this is so harsh.  Welcome to punitive world.

In retrospect, I was kind of irritated this thread ever got started.  Mickelson shoots his mouth off a bit, and somebody sees a story.  The irresistible story gets shared on GCA, and some of us (including myself) are compelled to comment.  As hard as I try to say something sensible, I always feel a bit stupid afterwards.  The comments are polite, but it is impossible not to inject opinions about relevant politics and economics.  A few people get irritated by the comments, but this time it didn't escalate further.

I hate being yanked around by the tabloid nature of modern journalism.  The only reason I care whether KPMG dropped Phil Mickelson as a client is that I regret the original story was ever reported.  Can't we have more nice stories, and fewer efforts to exploit human shortcomings?  This is quite a price to pay for being a little cavalier and imprecise with his words.  It's sad that this hit piece strategy works so well.  I'm not biting next time.

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2022, 07:45:58 PM »
Hoo boy, KPMG is dropping Phil, effective immediately. That has to put a dent in Phil’s walking-around gambling money.


https://www.golfchannel.com/video/phil-mickelson-apology-was-just-damage-control-says-brandel-chamble








































Dan Rapaport@Daniel_RapaportOne thing a tour player said to me last week about Phil Mickelson, anonymously, has stuck with me. “This is nothing new. The world is just starting to see what we’ve known.”3:02 PM · Feb 22, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
« Last Edit: February 22, 2022, 09:56:51 PM by Rob Marshall »
"I used to get pissed at blowing leads until I quit having them" John Kavanaugh

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