[Charlie Goerges]

Colt hated the use of sleepers. In 'The Book of the Links' from 1912, he wrote:


"Yet how often do we see horrible symmetrical-looking pits, with faces smoothed out to the same angle, and the pleasant surroundings spoilt thereby! And very likely some old railway sleepers are used to prevent the sides of the hazards ever looking natural."

I assume then that those hideous eyebrows at Rye weren't his?

I don't know the answer to that, but it brings up an interesting thing that I've noticed in the literature of golf course architects. They'll say one thing in writing, and then do the opposite at some point. I don't know if that's the case here, but it makes me wonder. I'll say, that it's better for us that the early guys wrote what they did, even if they didn't always follow it, because it gave/gives us a foundation of literature to build on.

[Ally Mcintosh]

.

[Charlie Goerges]

This certainly is anachronistic, and I love it, but it can only be used sparingly.


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I'm not up on my history of Sleepy Hollow, but I'm assuming this is anachronistic because it is restored to a different era than the rest of the course? (or something to that effect) Definitely a beautiful spot.

[Charlie Goerges]

The lump in the rough next to the punchbowl at chicago golf is one of my favs.

Can you tell us more about it?

[Adam Lawrence]

Colt hated the use of sleepers. In 'The Book of the Links' from 1912, he wrote:


"Yet how often do we see horrible symmetrical-looking pits, with faces smoothed out to the same angle, and the pleasant surroundings spoilt thereby! And very likely some old railway sleepers are used to prevent the sides of the hazards ever looking natural."

I assume then that those hideous eyebrows at Rye weren't his?

I don't think so. Rye has been altered a lot since Colt worked on it in the 1890s.

[Charlie Goerges]

However, we did add a couple of small pieces of wall around the clubhouse area [coming up toward the green on hole 5] to make it look like the walls were in reference to the clubhouse site, even though there wasn't a building there originally.

This was one of the things that I was curious about. I wonder how often you do this sort of thing? I realize it kind of needs to be kept to a minimum or it loses its effectiveness.

[Tim Martin]

This certainly is anachronistic, and I love it, but it can only be used sparingly.


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I'm not up on my history of Sleepy Hollow, but I'm assuming this is anachronistic because it is restored to a different era than the rest of the course? (or something to that effect) Definitely a beautiful spot.

Charlie-I believe Gil Hanse’s task was to replicate this hole(16) as close to Macdonald’s original as possible including the wraparound bunker and green that included the “thumbprint”. There was a version sans the thumbprint and a series of individual oval bunkers before Hanse got involved. What I just described could have been two versions ago.

[Kalen Braley]

P.S.  One feature I would like to see return thou, even thou it may be unpopular, is some form of and limited usage of cops. It seems Tom kinda tried to reintroduce it with the partial stone/brick walls at The Renaissance Club

Kalen

Cops were generally artificial features that went straight across the line of play to form cross-hazards. The walls at Renaissance were already there but more than that Tom and his team have used them very creatively without putting them in the direct line of play.

Niall

The artificial component doesn't bother me much, given that almost everything is 'artificial' on a course, even if some man-made features stick out more than others.  From a functional perspective I think they do well in forcing a decision, without going to all the hassle of putting in yet another cliche-ish pond.

Riviera effectively uses the drainage ditches as cops and I don't think they detract in the slightest.  But certainly it would need to be like any other feature to use in moderation.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom

I was thinking of the development of ecobunker sod walling. Maybe a bit more expensive that timber sleepers but if someone is employing you they can afford it 

Actually, I have two projects in the USA where we are discussing using EcoBunker at scale.  And yes, both clients can surely afford it.  It's a bit of a stretch in these two locations, but both courses are trying to replicate links conditions.  Also I've become tired of watching guys dump sand back into the blowout bunkers we have built elsewhere, even if everyone loves the look of them.


Funnily enough, we are also building a course in Scotland now, and I don't know if we are going to do any revetted bunkers there or not.  We have discussed trying to make it look older than that!

[Tom_Doak]

 it brings up an interesting thing that I've noticed in the literature of golf course architects. They'll say one thing in writing, and then do the opposite at some point. I don't know if that's the case here, but it makes me wonder. I'll say, that it's better for us that the early guys wrote what they did, even if they didn't always follow it, because it gave/gives us a foundation of literature to build on.

Hey, we are allowed to change our minds along the way, aren't we?  Dr. MacKenzie in particular wrote late in his career that there were a couple of his 14 points on golf architecture that he wished he'd never said - particularly about trying to arrange the routing in two loops of nine holes.


For the most part, there isn't anything in The Anatomy of a Golf Course [written 32 years ago] that I want to go back and excise.  But I do realize that not every client has the same goals, and I am open to trying new things on occasion.  Life would be boring otherwise.

[Charlie Goerges]

 it brings up an interesting thing that I've noticed in the literature of golf course architects. They'll say one thing in writing, and then do the opposite at some point. I don't know if that's the case here, but it makes me wonder. I'll say, that it's better for us that the early guys wrote what they did, even if they didn't always follow it, because it gave/gives us a foundation of literature to build on.

Hey, we are allowed to change our minds along the way, aren't we?  Dr. MacKenzie in particular wrote late in his career that there were a couple of his 14 points on golf architecture that he wished he'd never said - particularly about trying to arrange the routing in two loops of nine holes.


For the most part, there isn't anything in The Anatomy of a Golf Course [written 32 years ago] that I want to go back and excise.  But I do realize that not every client has the same goals, and I am open to trying new things on occasion.  Life would be boring otherwise.

Absolutely you can change your mind. I will say that Mackenzie is who I was thinking of when I wrote the comment. I probably didn't get the point across well enough, but I think it is/was more important for him or any of you architects to get your ideas out there in a timely fashion than it was to produce some sacrosanct and perfect piece of writing.


Speaking of Anatomy, was there a line in it where you said something to the effect that it was impractical to have 18 downhill tee shots (or holes maybe)? It would have been in response to something Jack Nicklaus would have written/said I believe. I'm trying to remember where I read that.

[Michael Moore]

Do architects ever purposely put in anachronistic-seeming features? (Should they?)

In the interaction design world we have a name for this, skeuomorph (skeuos=container, morphe=form). The current example is the charging tools for an electric car that look like a gas hose and nozzle, and go into the normal place on one's vehicle. My understanding is that the skeuomorph lends comfort and familiarity and can be a highly desirable design trait.

[Marty Bonnar]

Do architects ever purposely put in anachronistic-seeming features? (Should they?)

In the interaction design world we have a name for this, skeuomorph (skeuos=container, morphe=form). The current example is the charging tools for an electric car that look like a gas hose and nozzle, and go into the normal place on one's vehicle. My understanding is that the skeuomorph lends comfort and familiarity and can be a highly desirable design trait.

Michael,
Many thanks for that. I just spent a very entertaining hour down the rabbithole of skeuomorphism. Utterly fascinating. Brain trying to develop ideas of how it fits with landscape design.
Cheers,
F.

[Michael Moore]

I guess a clear and correct example of a golf course skeuomorph would be sleepers on a bunker on a modern course. I don’t find this to be comforting and familiar, I find it to be jarring and unattractive.

[Marty Bonnar]

I guess a clear and correct example of a golf course skeuomorph would be sleepers on a bunker on a modern course. I don’t find this to be comforting and familiar, I find it to be jarring and unattractive.

That's weird, cos that's EXACTLY the example that first came to my mind too!

[Charlie Goerges]

Yes, thanks to Michael for putting a name on it for us, much appreciated

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