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If a course has 14 par fours why can't there be six short (ish), six long and six in between?
Move up a set of tees or two and you'll likely encounter 3-4 short 4s that are either reachable or driver with a flip wedge.
As far as "driveable" par 4s, I tend to prefer two....ideally one on each nine if the land allows. What I'd like to see more of are the 350-375 yard par 4s, more of the drive and pitch variety. That was a particular strength of Pete Dye, in my opinion. Those holes are playable by all but test even the best players....if designed well.
Quote from: Ken Moum on September 22, 2022, 03:55:41 PMIf a course has 14 par fours why can't there be six short (ish), six long and six in between? Ken,Don't think the math works out there. 14 != 18, but I like where you were headed. P.S. I think this problem has already been solved hasn't it? Move up a set of tees or two and you'll likely encounter 3-4 short 4s that are either reachable or driver with a flip wedge.
Tommy,I observed many years ago that all of my true favorite courses [St Andrews, Cypress Point, NGLA, Pine Valley, Crystal Downs, Merion, North Berwick etc] had not just one great short par-4, but three or four or five of them. So I started looking to do that from my very first golf course.High Pointe had a couple of pretty good ones, but Pacific Dunes and Barnbougle and Ballyneal and Tara Iti and St. Andrews Beach and Gunnamatta all have three or more great short par-4's, and they are generally considered some of the best holes I ever built.I was never quite on the same page as Tom Weiskopf about those holes being drivable, I'm fine with drive and pitch holes or other variations on the theme. But, ideally, there ought to be several holes where the short hitter has a chance to make par and the long hitter has a chance to make six.
Wolf Point Ranch
Quote from: Mike Nuzzo on September 22, 2022, 11:23:31 PMWolf Point RanchMike, that is a fascinating graph. I have never seen anything like it. It could be a fun exercise to do for some courses. I do have to get there somehow.
Quote from: Tommy Williamsen on September 23, 2022, 09:47:52 AMQuote from: Mike Nuzzo on September 22, 2022, 11:23:31 PMWolf Point RanchMike, that is a fascinating graph. I have never seen anything like it. It could be a fun exercise to do for some courses. I do have to get there somehow.Tommy,Similar graphs have been used and shown, all the way back to some of the old guys. I was actually a bit surprised. When I saw Mike had posted, I figured he would be good naturedly lambasting me for suggesting any kind of "formula." Architects understand that base distance doesn't always make a hole play differently, or even with different clubs, but trying to have all kinds of hole lengths is one starting point to making each hole have it's own character and providing playing variety IF the gca considers all the factors that alter what I call effective playing length.