[Jonathan Cummings]

Man, I agree.  What in God's name does the proximity to Streamsong have to do with WW?  I have been going to WW since it opened (Streamsong too).  WW is just an hour up the road from the home club. 


Love WW and wish Ben etal the best in whatever they do to improve it.


As an aside I've always considered WW an out-of-the-way somewhat sleepy, "what-it-could-be" pair of quality Fizzio courses.  But also a WAAAY cool destination to get the boys together and drive up for a day or two of both quality golf and friendly bantering and imbibing.   


But one of the more funkier aspects of spending a couple days there is staying at the "resort" - and a Biiiiiigggg stretch saying resort - at Homosassa Springs.  One step up from a biker bar - the RV park, dance hall, great bar, run down hotel, killer good grouper sandwiches, manatees galore and the 70 year-old Monkey Island captures everything cool about central rural Florida.  I so hope that aspect is never lost. 


An upgrade to the WW golf course is needed but what is not is an upscale glitzy Nth-star getaway hotel in the FL hill country.  Love the Streamsong courses but staying there, frankly, leaves me cold!

[Lou_Duran]

Too bad the buyers didn't take a run at the nearby, now defunct Dunes/Seville GC.  I thought it was one of Arthur Hills' best, a real hidden gem.  Too far away from the beaches?

[Adam Clayman]

The turf is the biggest aspect that needs fixing.


It's never played optimally.

[Mike Tanner]

Lou Duran's post reminded me of a long-ago day (2014) when I played Rolling Oaks at World Woods in the morning and the Dunes/Seville GC in the afternoon. I enjoyed both courses, although they combined to rough me up a bit. Damn shame about Hill's course. Looking forward to seeing the next iteration of World Woods. 

[Jonathan Webb]

Cabot Citrus Farms is a bit of an odd name given that there isn't much, if any, citrus grown within 45 minutes of the site.

Maybe they'll plant some along the entry drive?

[Drew Harvie]

Cabot Citrus Farms is a bit of an odd name given that there isn't much, if any, citrus grown within 45 minutes of the site.

Maybe they'll plant some along the entry drive?

Is it more odd than Cabot Pacific being 6 hours from the Pacific Ocean?

[Kalen Braley]

Cabot Citrus Farms is a bit of an odd name given that there isn't much, if any, citrus grown within 45 minutes of the site.

Maybe they'll plant some along the entry drive?

Is it more odd than Cabot Pacific being 6 hours from the Pacific Ocean?

Or any odder than saying Youngstown, Ohio is in the Midwest despite being only 400 miles away from the Atlantic Ocean, and over 2500 miles to the Pacific Ocean. 

[Joel_Stewart]

The turf is the biggest aspect that needs fixing.


It's never played optimally.

The entire course is going to be re-grassed with a new strain of Bermuda.  WW has never updated the grass.  This will follow new irrigation and drainage with Pine Barrens (which sits on the lower part of the property) probably being sand capped.


I think it will be interesting to see if they follow Streamsong with the new Mach 1 greens? 

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

Cabot Citrus Farms is a bit of an odd name given that there isn't much, if any, citrus grown within 45 minutes of the site.

Maybe they'll plant some along the entry drive?

Is it more odd than Cabot Pacific being 6 hours from the Pacific Ocean?

Or any odder than saying Youngstown, Ohio is in the Midwest despite being only 400 miles away from the Atlantic Ocean, and over 2500 miles to the Pacific Ocean.

When I moved from SD to PA after college and people would refer to OH as the Midwest I had to dig out an atlas for them.  I explained to them that the geographical center of the US is near Belle Fourche, SD.   So when they would say "what is OH considered then?"  I would lovingly refer to it as the "Middle-East"


Even the center of the country based upon population instead of strictly geography is on the Indiana/Illinois border, near[size=78%] Kentucky.[/size]

[Kevin Lynch]

I’ve always loved WW and enjoyed the variety between the two courses.  I’ve never been too worried about the rustic feel of the place nor the modest clubhouse. 


But when I played there in late December, I was shocked at how poor the conditions were. Not poor by “world class” standards, but poor for my local $20 muni course standards. I still enjoyed the day because of the routing, but it was jarring.  I’ve played there over the past several years (same time of year), and while conditions weren’t ideal, they had been 10 times better than last month.


The news of changed ownership is welcome to protect such a great design from neglect.  But I am concerned whether this project will make it a “destination” course rather than an upper level public access course.  I’d hate to see the local golfers who have played it in lesser conditions become priced out by the destination model. 


Having said that, I recognize that such an investment needs to get repaid.  But I’m hoping that may happen with a 70-80% green fee increase as opposed to the 400% increase one may expect in the destination model. 

[MCirba]

Cabot Citrus Farms is a bit of an odd name given that there isn't much, if any, citrus grown within 45 minutes of the site.

Maybe they'll plant some along the entry drive?

Is it more odd than Cabot Pacific being 6 hours from the Pacific Ocean?

Or any odder than saying Youngstown, Ohio is in the Midwest despite being only 400 miles away from the Atlantic Ocean, and over 2500 miles to the Pacific Ocean. 

Kalen,

Anyone in PA will tell you that Pittsburgh is also in the Midwest.   Heck if my house was 15 miles west of here crossing the Route 81 delineation point I'd be in the Midwest!   

[Jonathan Webb]

Cabot Citrus Farms is a bit of an odd name given that there isn't much, if any, citrus grown within 45 minutes of the site.

Maybe they'll plant some along the entry drive?

Is it more odd than Cabot Pacific being 6 hours from the Pacific Ocean?

To me, both are odd and poor names. That said, likely won't matter as the product should deliver.

[Drew Harvie]

Cabot Citrus Farms is a bit of an odd name given that there isn't much, if any, citrus grown within 45 minutes of the site.

Maybe they'll plant some along the entry drive?

Is it more odd than Cabot Pacific being 6 hours from the Pacific Ocean?

Or any odder than saying Youngstown, Ohio is in the Midwest despite being only 400 miles away from the Atlantic Ocean, and over 2500 miles to the Pacific Ocean. 

Kalen,

Anyone in PA will tell you that Pittsburgh is also in the Midwest.   Heck if my house was 15 miles west of here crossing the Route 81 delineation point I'd be in the Midwest!   

Not to get too far off track, but in Canada, Toronto is East Coast (lol), which only adds to the confusion of Pittsburgh being midwest.

[Kyle Harris]

Pittsburgh says pop for soda.


QED.

[Kalen Braley]

Daryl,

That's how I see it too.  I've always though if one identifies the West, Middle, and Eastern parts of the country, then the "Mid-West" would be somewhere around Wyoming. 

P.S. Laughs on the convo with the locals, safe to say Middle East might be the most correct description for some of those areas.

[Brent Carlson]

Daryl,

That's how I see it too.  I've always though if one identifies the West, Middle, and Eastern parts of the country, then the "Mid-West" would be somewhere around Wyoming. 

P.S. Laughs on the convo with the locals, safe to say Middle East might be the most correct description for some of those areas.

Kalen,


Of course you know it has to do with the time period in which the terms became common.  Even the USGA used to refer to Chicago as the west!


Cheers

[Kalen Braley]

Daryl,

That's how I see it too.  I've always though if one identifies the West, Middle, and Eastern parts of the country, then the "Mid-West" would be somewhere around Wyoming. 

P.S. Laughs on the convo with the locals, safe to say Middle East might be the most correct description for some of those areas.

Kalen,

Of course you know it has to do with the time period in which the terms became common.  Even the USGA used to refer to Chicago as the west!

Cheers

Yea it get it.

The term was first coined in the late 1800's and it certainly made a lot of sense...then.

However, 125+ years later, and its still being used by the United States Census Bureau and other gov't orgs to refer to that region?  Just terrific 

P.S. By that standard they may as well still refer to California, Nevada, and Arizona as Mexico. At the very least that would probably please a few people in this forum.

[Mike_Trenham]

Fred Rodgers was from Pittsburgh, mid-west vs north-east is not as much a matter of geography as it is how people think and act.

[Carl Nichols]

At least they aren't naming it Streamsong North.

[Ronald Montesano]

Do you have any eights?

[Tom_Doak]

Of course you know it has to do with the time period in which the terms became common.  Even the USGA used to refer to Chicago as the west!

Well, that's because the Western Golf Association is based in Chicago.

[Jon Claydon]

Hail! to the victors valiant[/size]Hail! to the conquering heroesHail! Hail! to michiganThe leaders and best!Hail! To the victors valiantHail! to the conquering heroesHail! Hail! to michiganThe champions of the west![/color]

[Stewart Abramson]

The Midwest  states are those between the Appalachians and Rocky Mountains and north of the Ohio River and the 37th parallel. The Midwest, as defined by the federal government, comprises the states of Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, and Wisconsin.
[/size]
[/size]Midwest

[Bryan Izatt]

I’ve always loved WW and enjoyed the variety between the two courses.  I’ve never been too worried about the rustic feel of the place nor the modest clubhouse. 


But when I played there in late December, I was shocked at how poor the conditions were. Not poor by “world class” standards, but poor for my local $20 muni course standards. I still enjoyed the day because of the routing, but it was jarring.  I’ve played there over the past several years (same time of year), and while conditions weren’t ideal, they had been 10 times better than last month.


The news of changed ownership is welcome to protect such a great design from neglect.  But I am concerned whether this project will make it a “destination” course rather than an upper level public access course.  I’d hate to see the local golfers who have played it in lesser conditions become priced out by the destination model. 


Having said that, I recognize that such an investment needs to get repaid.  But I’m hoping that may happen with a 70-80% green fee increase as opposed to the 400% increase one may expect in the destination model.

I too was there just before New Year's and I'd give an alternate view of conditions.  The overseed fairways were well filled in. The tees were fine. They had run a sand-pro through all the waste areas on PB which is a first in my going there for more than 20 years.  There was a large pile of tree trunks where they had removed mature what looked like a fair number of mature trees.  The greens were not great but not shockingly bad.  They have a moss problem on some areas of some greens.  But coming from a northern course with similar moss problems it wasn't a great shock given the price was right.  Oh, and the carts all were new compared to two years ago. So, I hope people don't give the courses a pass before they get upgraded based on these conditions reports.


I share your thoughts and wishes about the likely "destination" direction.  If I wanted to spend a lot of money I could stop by Streamsong.  When I don't, I guess there's always Juliette Falls, just up the back roads.  It's greens were good at least they were when I was there.


P.S.  If you go, beware the cart paths -- the tree roots are outmuscling the concrete paths.  And on the way out there are some pretty wicked tree root based speed bumps in the roadway.

[Jeff Schley]

Pardon for not reading every post or article posted on this, but to summarize please correct me:

• MK and team bought WW and transforming the name to Cabot Citrus
• Will renovate both courses with TBD architects
• Expand housing there?
• Building a network for members to golf at?  Is this public or private or what are the details/scenarios with this?

I'm most interested in this Cabot network as I think the St. Lucia is private or will be? How does this portfolio fit together if at all?

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