[Mike Hendren]

The back bunkers got a lot of play Sunday (and cost Maggert a tremendous comeback) from tweener shots.  Players took enough club to reach the back right pin, but aimed over the front bunker to take the H2O out of play.  That, despite that fact that the middle of the green is only 9 paces deep between bunkers.  Lanny suggested they bail out to the front bunker, an absurd comment since the bunker is narrower than the green and is fronted by water instead of sand.  No one mentioned the swirling winds so often associated with the hole, so I assume it wasn't a factor Sunday.  

By comparison, the left hand portion of the green is probably twice that deep with a little room to the left and probably fifteen yards closer to the tee.

That said,  why don't these buys ALWAYS play to the left third of the green, regardless of pin position? The green has some slope, but nothing that's not obvious and these guys should be able to two putt in their sleep from there even to the back right pin.  

Hep me ya'll.

Mike

[Dan Kelly]

And look who went to the left side!

The man in the green jacket, Mr. Mike Weir.

I've always wondered why more of these guys apparently don't watch as much videotape as I do.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The dilema is:

The right side presents a larger target, although it is a longer shot and leaves one with a long putt, but, I don't think that the best PGA Tour players are looking to play safe on Sunday afternoon when they are trying to catch the leader.

The risk/reward coupled with the building pressure and the fact that they are running out of holes (only 6 more left after
# 12) all combine to make the play of the hole pivotal in the outcome of the tournament.

The thought of making a birdie, coupled with two reachable par 5's in the next three holes is enough to make the faint of heart attack the pin.

In addition, these fellows possess the finest short games in the world, and recovering for a par is almost a given with their mindsets.

Remember, they think positively, not negatively, where we might have the reverse thought process because we don't possess their talents and nerve.

[Steve_L.]

Wait a minute...  Are we discussing strategy here...?  On a three-par...?  At Augusta National...?

[Mike Benham]

I am not convinced that the left side of 12 is the safe side.  Granted, the green is bigger so you have the advantage of being a half of club long or short and still being "on the green".

However, let's evaluate the risk of being more than a half of club long or short.  Miss the green short and it rolls into the hazard.  Miss the green long and you are in a closely mown grassy area which would require a delicate pitch from a tight lie over the bunker to the cup.  Not an easy shot.  I don't think I have ever seen anyone miss the green left (off the cart path ... oops, walking path) so I can't comment on the difficulty of that recovery.

I believe the center of the green is more inviting because if you miss the green long or short, your next shot is more than likely from a bunker, and the pro's are pretty darn good from a bunker (Maggert's play was just plain old bad luck).  

When aiming for the middle, the only real danger of a high score is if they aim for the middle and hit a hacker push thin toe shot and its in the water ...

[Steve_L.]

Isn't the middle of #12 the thinnest - and between bunkers front and back..?

IMO #12 is akin to #17 at TPC Sawgrass...  It's a finesse shot - not about brute length, but a test of execution.  And particularly a test of composure between the ears...  Not as daunting or contrived as 17 TPC, but with similar characteristics...

[Mike Hendren]

Patrick,

I like your take on the pressure to make a move beginning at 12 on Sunday.  I do believe, however, that the left third is the largest target within the green.  

Mike,

The back bunkers are very difficult with the Sunday pin placement since the player is playing directly at the water, which for all practical purposes begins no more than 12 to 15 feet past the hole given the shaved bank.  

My main point was that the experts opine that you don't attack the Sunday pin placement.  If that's the case, better to play way left than to the middle.  

Regards,

Mike

[Pete Lavallee]

Mike;

That's a great point about why it's so difficult for the best players in the game to handle that Sunday pin placement. Most players will openly say that there are some holes positions that shouldn't be attacked at Augusta, surely the back right at the 12th is one of them; but playing that hole safely can often lead to disaster. I think it's because the green is perfectly biased to reject the typical right hander's miss pattern. When the face is a little open the shot goes short and right (more loft @ impact), and when the clubface is a little closed the ball goes left and a little long (less loft @ impact). So you're quite right, aiming at the center of the green makes short right (in the water) and long left (back bunker on the downslope) the two most likely outcomes. Surely this hole has to favor Mike Weir, because the green is perfectly oriented for him, or any other lefty.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pete L,

How about any other righty who hits a high fade ?

N         I         C         K         L         A         U         S

[Doug Siebert]

When I was watching this it certainly looked that there is some room to be long right.  Am I wrong about that?  There's no sand, and the bank with the flowers seems to end about as far right as the edge of the green, and there appears to be open area there.  It may not be a guaranteed par from that angle, but it'd sure take Ben Wright's "dreaded others" out of play.   I don't remember ever seeing anyone playing from over there.

[James Edwards]

Pete,

It's well documented that the wind plays the major role in this part of the course.  Many good shots have been knocked from the sky and indeed have never come down - remember Normans lost ball?

Nicklaus has also run up a big number here not too long ago when he put two more chips from the drop zone in the water.
But we should listen to the Master as he has won a few more jackets than anyone else, so I would go with his strategy every time and play left.

[Patrick_Mucci]

JJSE,

I think Norman's shot, which flew the green by a good margin could be attributed more to the new graphite shafts he was playing then to the wind.

I believe that the wind has more influence on one's mind then it does on one's ball.

Coming off of # 10 and # 11, the frame of mind of the golfer might exert more influence on club and shot selection, as well as the intended target, than the actual location of the pin.

Certainly, the combination of the above can create uncertainty, resulting in mental turbulance, which has been known to influence one's swing.

While it is a longer carry to the right side, a pull to the left can create disastrous results

[Richard_Macafee]

The key is obviously being able to read the conditions. Clearly there was no wind to speak of on 12 on Sunday, which made the pin far more accessible. Those who played to the right side all hit good shots.

Quite a few who played away from it made bogey or worse. They probably wanted to shoot at the pin but had "you never shoot at the right pin on Sunday" embedded in their brains after hearing it for 20 years. I think they were probably trying NOT to hit a certain shot, instead of picking their target and being positive.

Players just keep hitting it in the water on 13 every year, but there is no "you must be long on 13" rule. The 12th has just become so famous and so feared that it messes with players heads.

I've heard a lot of people say Maggert's bunker shot on 12 was bad luck. I thought it was a very bad shot!

[Robert_Walker]

The 12th greeen is shaped and located in such a way that ALL targets (left, middle, and right) are just about equal in difficulty.

[Jeremy_Glenn.]

You always hit over the front bunker to the portion of the green behind that bunker.

Yes, that's the narrowest portion of the green, but the front bunker gives your effective target extra depth.

Put it another way:  If you aim to the left or to the right, and land short of the green, you spin back in the drink.  If you aim for the middle and are short, you land in a bunker.

I'd rather hit two from the bunker than three from the drop area.

[Matthew Mollica]

I've heard a lot of people say Maggert's bunker shot on 12 was bad luck. I thought it was a very bad shot!

I agree Rich. Maggert deserves immense praise for his composure with extreme bad luck earlier in the day, but not for what happened on 12. He played a number of sensational shots, later in the round too, as expected of someone who goes through 14,15,16 on Sunday afternoon in three under.

Getting back to 12 though, Maggert's selection of a bunker shot towards the flag, from a bad lie, with a bad stance, to a tight pin, with downslope and water beyond, was very bad.

Matthew

[James Edwards]

Patrick,

So Norman flew every green on his way to the 12th did he?

It doesnt take a tour pro 12 holes and previous rounds to work out how far he hits his clubs.

By the way, look back at the records and see what score he had on 10 and 11?

[Patrick_Mucci]

JJSE,

There is a reason Woods and others use steel instead of graphite, its called consistency in performance.
Norman's ball carried about two club lengths over the green.
Are you aware that he had been experimenting with graphite shafts, probably for his shoulder, and that he eventually settled on a shaft made in Japan ?

Ken Bakst has played # 12 during the Masters, I'd be interested to hear his views on the play of the hole, rather than the theoretical views of some who have never played the hole.

[James Edwards]

Patrick,

So, GN flew the ball over the green by 2 clubs purely because of the shaft type....?  and nothing to do with the wind? at all...? not even a tad?

I haven't played the hole, but I have had the pleasure of being personally guided round the golf course with Mr Owen III, head superintendent.

I have stood on the tee and on the green and observed with him.  He attributes the toughness of the hole to the swirling winds round 11 12 13.  Not a bad person to give me a wind analysis round amen corner.  What do you think?

You've assumed I have limited or no knowledge about shafts or about the 12th hole at ANGC - that says a great deal about you.  

Left side is safer, fact, ask Mike Weir.

[CHrisB]

According to Norman, he hit essentially the same shot from the tee after having to walk all the way back, and ended up 22 feet away (from where he made the putt for bogey).  If one the best players in the world equips their clubs with shafts that produce that much of a disparity on similar shots, then he probably isn't able to even get into contention on Masters Saturday.  Remember, this is a guy, Norman, who claimed he had his distances down to the half-yard!

Pat,
I think you were right when you first said that Norman's ball "flew the green by a good margin", and not when you later said it was only "about two club lengths over the green".  The press reports said he had 154 to the hole and hit it about 170 (but this seems to be a stretch to me--but he was probably at least 10 yards long).  He was a good club length or two above the bunker.

He may have been experimenting with graphite shafts (don't know if it was during that Masters), but my gosh, equipment alone can't explain the discrepancy, can it?

Sounds like the swirling wind to me.

That being said, though, the wind doesn't seem to nearly affect the the newer golf balls as much as it used to play with the older ones.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chris B,

Two club lengths, like 8-iron, hit 6 iron distance.

JJSE,

Did Mike Weir tell you that the left side was safer or are you just speculating ?  On what basis did Mike Weir declare that the left side was safer ?

Take a closer look at the hole and what sits behind the green.
Dense woods.

In years of watching # 12 at the Masters, and playing
the hole, NO ONE has ever suggested that a two club wind some how appears and then somehow disappates behind the green.

When Norman hit his shot, strong gusts were not prevalent that day.

The early rap on graphite shafts was their inconsistency, that you could hit 8 good shots with them and then the 9th would be off the planet.  I believe Norman's shot was less influenced by the wind and more influenced by the graphite shaft.

While the wind can swirl in that cul-de-sac, the area is not prone to micro bursts of substantial velocity when the rest of the golf course remains calm.

Any conclusions that you think I have drawn about you are purely speculation on your part.  You've made the assumptions about my perspective on your post.  The flaws are all yours.

Do you think that one visit to look at the hole qualifies you to make a general assessment of the play of the hole without ever having played it, to make that determination for yourself?

A superintendent may not necessarily be the best evaluator of the playability of a given hole, based solely on his job as superintendent.

What is Mr Owen's handicap.

Do you think that Paul Latshaw and some of the members would be equally qualified to assess the playability of the hole ?

[Sebonac]

Hogan said that if you ever saw him land on the right side of the 12th green.....that would mean that he mishit the shot....

[Patrick_Mucci]

Sebonic,

Can you verify that Hogan made that statement ?
When, where, and to whom.
And, was he talking strictly about his game, or making a universal statement

What happens to that statement and theory when the pin is on the right side ?

As a fader of the ball, if the pin was on the left side of the green, would he start the ball out left of the green, hoping that the winds JJSE alludes to wouldn't keep his ball there ?

Is everything Hogan said about golf correct and infallible ?

[HamiltonBHearst]

SEEMS TO ME THAT HOGAN MIGHT HAVE BEEN FALLIBLE
IT IS MUCCI THAT IS MIGHT BE INFALLIBLE.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Hamilton,

Often, statements are attributed to individuals, but upon examination, that individual never made the statement.

It can't hurt to verify the authenticity of the statement, unless you would prefer that unfounded rumors be accepted as fact.

I'll ask you, If the pin was in the right part of the green, how would Hogan play the hole.........to the left side ?

I have my doubts that Hogan ever made that statement, and I'm just asking the individual who repeated it, if he can support or verify it.

Questions shouldn't trouble you.  

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