[Matt_Cohn]

Can someone expain where the range will be?

[V. Kmetz]

Just saw on Geoff Shackleford’s Quadrlateral that daily tickets are sold out for next year‘s U.S. Open.  When I went on the USGA site recently it only listed weekly tickets at $880. I registered to be updated when daily tickets were available and was never notified. The only tickets available are $1500 for the Trophy Club package. It would appear that USGA members bought the tickets. I never recall a U.S. Open selling out so quickly.

LoL.. if these trends continue (combining this with the other thread on "Comparing Values...") it seems on public venues (Pinehurst, Black, Torrey), it will cost more to observe play on the course than to play it yourself.

[William_G]

such a different gig than say Shinnecock where you could almost have the US Open there anyday of the week without any massive changes.
hopefully this is the last one at TCC, it's like Frankenstein.
americana gone bad

[Ian Mackenzie]

Can someone expain where the range will be?

I was there 4 weeks ago.
New range tee ground built on existing 10th fairway. It looked weird to me and I was told they hit down the 9th FW which plays uphill and is very narrow.

[Tim Martin]

I always love the Open there. The first one I remember is 1963 and Boros' playoff win over Palmer and Jackie Cupit.

My parents rented a cottage at Laurel Beach in Milford, Connecticut in the 1960’s a few away from Boros and his family. There was a pile of kids and Julius Jr. was the same age as me. Senior was rarely there but I do recall meeting him and seeing his clubs in the cottage. I didn’t know what a local hero he was at the time.

[PCCraig]

hopefully this is the last one at TCC, it's like Frankenstein.
americana gone bad

What the hell are you talking about?

[AChao]

I agree with PCCraig.  It may be slightly odd, but they do the driving range on 9 and 10 of Clyde/Squirrel every 20 years or so.  In the olden days you could play the "open" layout once a month or something like that.  In fact, if the course wasn't busy, you could pretty much play the "open" routing any time you want. 


Re: Shinnecock ... some of the US Open tees aren't exactly the most seamless and flowing either.  TCC may have it's issues and it may be odd to piece together 18 holes from 27 holes, but if you spend some time there, you'll see it's really not a big adjustment except for using 9 and 10 as the practice range.

hopefully this is the last one at TCC, it's like Frankenstein.
americana gone bad

What the hell are you talking about?

[Kalen Braley]

A few comments/questions based on reading the thread and looking at the Open Routing, as well as Google Earth and Bing:

1)  There was a comment on logistics, and looks like they could use the gate between 1 and 2 as a spectator entrance, assuming they will already be bused in anyways.  Given 2 will be a par 3, they should have a decent size area for a few entrance tents and such.

2)  Am I seeing it right that 2 and 3 of the 9 holer will be combined into one long par 4 (13 on the Open layout)?

3)  Given that new back tee on 3 is right off the 5th fairway(open routing), which is a short 4, seems like they'll need a portable fence or something for protection from tee balls on 5.  3 should also be interesting for the big bombers as that pinch point will be about 300-320 yards out. But I guess BDC will still fly it over everything.

4) Using that new back tee on 14(Open Routing), looks like it's just over 500 yards to reach that upper fairway which Google Earth puts about 40 feet higher than the lower fairway.  Miss the fairway and it'll be a short lay up followed by a blind/uphill 3rd.  Perhaps a real par 5 even for these guys. 

P.S.  I wonder how many people got plunked before they built that giant net to protect the pool.

[Amol Yajnik]

A few comments/questions based on reading the thread and looking at the Open Routing, as well as Google Earth and Bing:

1)  There was a comment on logistics, and looks like they could use the gate between 1 and 2 as a spectator entrance, assuming they will already be bused in anyways.  Given 2 will be a par 3, they should have a decent size area for a few entrance tents and such.

2)  Am I seeing it right that 2 and 3 of the 9 holer will be combined into one long par 4 (13 on the Open layout)?

3)  Given that new back tee on 3 is right off the 5th fairway(open routing), which is a short 4, seems like they'll need a portable fence or something for protection from tee balls on 5.  3 should also be interesting for the big bombers as that pinch point will be about 300-320 yards out. But I guess BDC will still fly it over everything.

4) Using that new back tee on 14(Open Routing), looks like it's just over 500 yards to reach that upper fairway which Google Earth puts about 40 feet higher than the lower fairway.  Miss the fairway and it'll be a short lay up followed by a blind/uphill 3rd.  Perhaps a real par 5 even for these guys. 

P.S.  I wonder how many people got plunked before they built that giant net to protect the pool.

2 and 3 on the Primrose course have always been combined to make a longer par 4 for the championship routing.  The same thing was done most recently at the 2013 US Amateur.


The back tee on 14 for the Open makes it an amazingly long hole, it played 623 in 2013, with the uphill rise that you speak of.  In addition, the green is on the smaller side for that course.  I will be in awe of any player that makes a 3 on that hole.


I assume they are going to have people take buses in from Boston College or other nearby points if they drive to the tournament.  Selfishly, I hope that I can use the same access that I had in 2013: ride a bike to the main gate and lock it up at the bike rack that they had set up for people like me!

[Adam G]

I played the championship course at The Country Club with “Sunday pins” in late July. I thought I’d post a few thoughts after some reflection.

First and foremost, I am EXTREMELY excited for the Open. The course is spectacular. This is not just a museum course where the primary interest is the rich history. The course is compelling, varied, and challenging. It fits its rocky, New England topography beautifully, and the greens are interesting and highly sloped. Getting crowds in and out of the property will be a logistical nightmare, but otherwise the Open should be a smashing success.

For those interested, I paste the scorecard we were given for the US Open tees below. It will be 7,381 yards as a par 70.

A few thoughts (I will use championship course hole numbers throughout):

• The land movement is amazing and more dramatic than in pictures. This is especially the case in the canyon on the front 9 (3 plays down into and through the canyon, 4 plays back down into the canyon the opposite way from the opposite lower rim, 5 plays across it down and then up, 6 is hanging on the edge of it), and the hill that 8 green 9 tee and 14 green and 15 tee sit on. To give you an idea of the slopes, according to my yardage guide the tee shot on 3 is 13 yards downhill from the main tee (9 downhill form the new championship tee). The tee shot on 9 is 18 yards downhill. And on 14 – a 625 par 5 from the championship tee – the second shot is blind up a 40-foot-tall ridge to a tiny green. Finally, 3 and 10 are just spectacular holes with amazing land. I have always seen 3 described as a hole played between two mounds. It’s really a tee on the edge of a canyon and then down into it and through a tiny gap where the canyon narrows between two rocky fescue-covered slopes. To cut the corner over the right-hand hill from the new back tee is over 360 yards (10 yards downhill) on my yardage guide. 10 you get from pictures, but the rock ledges it plays over are more remarkable in person. At the same time, 1, the second half of 15, 16, 17, and 18 are surprisingly flat (1 and 18 being on an old horse racing track).
• The greens are quite not as tiny as I expected especially after Hanse did extensive green enlargement. That being said, the greens are still small, and TCC is definitely a second-shot golf course. Some of the new hole locations that Hanse uncovered in the corners of greens are very difficult.
• I doubt the pros will be able to overpower TCC. I know people said that about Winged Foot and then Bryson did his thing, but TCC has a lot smaller greens, many of them are more challenging for a run-up due to cross-bunkering, fescue, or water in front of the green, and there are other features that neutralize distance (e.g., the creek on Himalayas at 350 and the fairway on 3 narrowing dramatically at 340). It is a position and second shot golf course, hence Matthew Fitzpatrick winning the Amateur.
• The greens have a lot more slope than an average tour course except for #1 and #15. I think the pros may be surprised how many short puts have to be started outside the hole. Some greens like 4, 12, and 14 on the championship course really have no flat spots.
• I cannot wait to see them play the drop shot par 3 11th ("Redan" which is not a Redan in the GCA sense but hey thats what they call it) that Hanse added back into the championship routing. It will at most a gap wedge for them but there is no room for error. The edges of the enlarged green repel and the front left "Sunday" hole location is diabolical as the green slopes sharply to front left on a little lobe (after sloping hard to right for the rest of the green), and it will be easy to spin one off the front to that hole location. It will be particularly challenging if the wind blows as it will be 20 feet downhill and downwind and require a flighted wedge with controlled spin. This will be a very fun hole to watch.
• The par 3s are excellent and varied. 2 is 220 uphill into the prevailing wind to a very firm green designed to be approached with a wedge (short par 4 for members) and is will be very difficult. 6 is the hole that impressed me the most relative to pictures. The green is outstanding – 3 levels high in front, low in the middle, and high in the back (think double plateau more than Biarritz) with a false front and a hard falloff on the left into the canyon where 3 fairway is with a deep bunker front left. Photos do not make it clear just how much everything falls off into the canyon on the left of the hole because the large features on the far side of the canyon distort the perspective. It looks like anything left of the trap falls off into an abyss. The front left Sunday hole location is extremely difficult with almost nowhere to land it, although it will play into the prevailing wind which should help them stop shots. Still our caddie who has been looping for almost 40 years said that is one of the hardest hole locations on the course.
• The “drivable” par 4 5^th will be very interesting. It is 310 uphill to a tiny green with fescue on all sides. This and 7 and 8 are the three big scoring opportunities.  The famed 17th could be as well, especially if they can cut the corner (it seemed to me there were too many trees to drive the green but Bryson and co see lines I just don’t…). But that green complex is tricky if you are out of place, and the "Justin Leonard hole location" where the hole will be on Sunday is just awesome as that back shelf is so small and the slope between tiers is steep.
• There are a few holes that require a draw off the tee or with a fairway wood. Given how few of these guys hit a draw with their driver, it will be fascinating to see them deal with them. In particular, 13 (1/2 primrose combined) moves hard left and has a fairway sloping left to right that really demands a draw (they can lay back with a 3 wood on this 490 yard par 4 but then will have a longer iron over water into a tiny green) and the blind uphill second shot on the 625 yard par 5 14th requires a draw because the green is tucked left and has short grass coming in from the right. If you try to cut it in, it’s all cary over very high fescue. That par 5 is particularly fantastic and will require two phenomenal shots to hit in two. (In Ran's course tour it played as the 12th using the 2013 US Amateur routing and you can see just how far left the green is and how it only accepts a draw. His photos are taken from far back enough that you can see up the ridge but from the landing zone it is blind up a large embankment.)
• To my mind, the most comparable US Open course is probably Pebble Beach. Tiny greens. Uneven lies. A brutal par 5 that will only be hit in two a handful of times. Just like Pebble, a good iron player and chipper will win.
• The course felt somewhat analogous to LACC to me. 1 and 18 are on the flattest land. The courses have great land movement and make interesting use of canyons. There is a very interesting short par 3. They both fit remarkably into their natural setting (TCC rocky New England forest and LACC the native LA scrub and barancas). TCC is certainly narrower but both have tremendous character (and are in the most expensive mansion-filled neighborhoods of their respective metro areas). And both are logistically challenging for crowds and parking. The Open has two very intriguing and rarely-seen venues in the next two years.
• As for the final score, a lot depends on the weather. We had a 20mph breeze and soft greens when I played but Boston has had a historically wet July and August. If it's dry in May/June like it has been the last few years and windy I could see a few under winning. Obviously if it's soft they will pick it apart and double digits under par wins. But the wind is the x factor. The prevailing north-westerly wind is strong in the valley that 3-4-5-6 are in and on the long par 4 10th (510 into the wind!) and the drop shot 11th. It is less of a factor to the east of the clubhouse and in much of the back nine where things are more sheltered from the breeze. If the wind kicks up and it’s firm TCC will give the pros a very tough challenge.

Scorecard:
1 – Polo Field – 495
2 – Cottage – 220
3 – Pond – 504
4 – Newton – 497
5 – Bakers – 310
6 – Plateau – 197
7 – Corner – 378
8 – Quarry – 567
9 – Primrose 9 – 425
10 – Himalayas – 513
11 – Redan – 131
12 – Stockton – 478
13 – Primrose 1/2 – 490
14 – Primrose 3 – 625
15 – Liverpool – 515
16 – Clyde – 211
17 – Elbow – 370
18 – Home – 455
OUT 3,593 par 35
IN 3,788 par 35
TOTAL 7,381 par 70

For those of you who have played main and who do not want to look up hole numbers, the routing is 1 main, 2 main as a par 3, 3 main, 5-8 main, 14 main, 9 primrose, 10-12 main, 1/2 primrose, 8 primrose (correcting error), 15-18 main.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Do they still have curling at TCC?   Curling used to be very popular at clubs in Canada, but in recent years clubs have been closing curling rinks, at least in Toronto.  In the last five years St Georges, Weston and Scarboro have all closed curling.  In some instances they use the space to put in simulators for indoor lessons and play during the winter.

[Brent Carlson]

I played the championship course at The Country Club with “Sunday pins” in late July. I thought I’d post a few thoughts after some reflection.

Adam,


Great post.  For those of us who haven't yet been to TCC Brookline it is very helpful.  I'm very much looking forward to the tournament.

[John Kirk]

I played the championship course at The Country Club with “Sunday pins” in late July. I thought I’d post a few thoughts after some reflection.

First and foremost, I am EXTREMELY excited for the Open. The course is spectacular. This is not just a museum course where the primary interest is the rich history. The course is compelling, varied, and challenging. It fits its rocky, New England topography beautifully, and the greens are interesting and highly sloped. Getting crowds in and out of the property will be a logistical nightmare, but otherwise the Open should be a smashing success.

Another Post of the Month nomination for Adam's fine post.  Thanks so much for the interesting analysis.

[WilliamN]

such a different gig than say Shinnecock where you could almost have the US Open there anyday of the week without any massive changes.
hopefully this is the last one at TCC, it's like Frankenstein.
americana gone bad

I am not a TCC member, but live in Boston and get to play it a couple of times every year.  I would say I've had the opportunity to play the "championship layout" many times.  It is not an abnormal occurrence (usually set up monthly) with the members enjoying playing it.  For instance, I believe it is always included in the multi-day member guest tournaments for at least one of the days.  I played the same day with Adam (maybe even in the same group . . .) and it was just a regular Friday at TCC (not even a special event.)  One added benefit about the composite layout is that it "flows" very nicely; it never really feels like you have an abnormal walk from green to tee and the flow works.  Said differently, it hardly feels like "Frankenstein" to me.
(From an outsider's perspective, my guess is the primary reason it isn't set up more frequently - or even as the primary option - is the 9 hole Primrose Course is a great asset to the club that gets a ton of play.  There are many TCC members who ONLY play the Primrose Course and don't want to see it turn into a 6 hole routing)

[Matthew Rose]

#14 is Primrose #8

[Ian Mackenzie]

Do they still have curling at TCC?   Curling used to be very popular at clubs in Canada, but in recent years clubs have been closing curling rinks, at least in Toronto.  In the last five years St Georges, Weston and Scarboro have all closed curling.  In some instances they use the space to put in simulators for indoor lessons and play during the winter.

Wayne, yes they do.
I was there for a M/G in June and saw the rink.


I have fond memories of watching my parents curl at Donalda Club in Don Mills...;-)

[Carl Nichols]

Adam--
Great post, thank you for the information and thoughts.  I played TCC for the first time about four years ago and a couple of times since.  Of the courses I played for the first time during that period, it's easily the one that exceeded my expectations the most.   

[Dan_Callahan]

Of the courses I played for the first time during that period, it's easily the one that exceeded my expectations the most.

I had the same experience the first time I played there. Given its notoriety after the Ryder Cup, I assumed the hype probably exceeded the reality. Plus, it didn't seem all that spectacular on TV. I did not expect it to be as beautiful as it is. I did not expect the huge elevation changes and how well integrated into the design the rock outcroppings are. I guess I didn't really expect it to be as fun as it is.

[Carl Nichols]

Of the courses I played for the first time during that period, it's easily the one that exceeded my expectations the most.

I had the same experience the first time I played there. Given its notoriety after the Ryder Cup, I assumed the hype probably exceeded the reality. Plus, it didn't seem all that spectacular on TV. I did not expect it to be as beautiful as it is. I did not expect the huge elevation changes and how well integrated into the design the rock outcroppings are. I guess I didn't really expect it to be as fun as it is.

That pretty well summarizes my reactions as well.

[Adam G]

Thanks for the kind words everyone!


The other thing I forgot about was that the assistant pros said the greens could not stimp over 12 due to the degree of slope and would likely be running closer to 11 so they are not right on the edge. If that's the case, it will be interesting to see a US Open with green speeds closer to the Open Championship.

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