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Ted Sturges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Piping Rock
« on: August 23, 2021, 02:50:32 PM »
I had the pleasure of playing Piping Rock for the first time two weeks ago.  I went in with fairly high expectations and they were exceeded.  Great routing, great piece of property, great place. 


Favorite holes were 3(!), 8(!), 9(!)...and the entire back 9(!!).


8-   A great adaptation of the Road hole!  Not sure I've played a Road hole green with that much elevation change from the back to the front of the putting green.


9-   Perhaps the largest biarritz green I have ever seen (and they only mow the back portion as putting green!)


The back 9 was spectacular.  Hard to pick out favorite holes on the back side because they were all so well-presented.  A wonderful natural Eden (11th), a funky alps/punchbowl (12th), a terrifying Knoll hole (13th), and then the great holes built over the severe land that comprised 15 and 16.  Close it out with a wonderful Short (17th), followed by a great par 5 home hole with the stately clubhouse located majestically behind the 18th green. 


As a set of one shot holes (redan, biarritz, eden and short) I would put this set up against any of the Mc/Raynors I have seen.


Hard to understand why C.B. MacDonald would be mad at not having the polo field (practice field) land to use in his routing...not sure which hole he would have given up had he been able to build holes on the polo area. 


Our group had a spectacular day at Piping Rock!  I will eagerly await a return visit!


TS

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2021, 02:13:11 AM »
Jeepers, I was asking someone yesterday, where has Ted been these past several years. Freaky.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Clyne

Ted Sturges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2021, 08:39:20 AM »
Hi Sean,


I am here, just not as frequently.  I lurk more than I post, but still enjoy the site.


Best,


Ted

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2021, 09:38:00 AM »
Jeepers, I was asking someone yesterday, where has Ted been these past several years. Freaky.

Ciao


Ted is apparently just sticking to Macdonald and Raynor courses, so he does not have to confront everyone else's.   ;)

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2021, 03:25:56 PM »
Piping Rock is one of those excellent courses that gets lost in golf-rich Long Island. I loved it.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2021, 07:04:10 PM »
Piping Rock just sounds like a euphemism ...
Coming in August 2023
~Manakiki
~OSU Scarlet
~OSU Grey
~NCR South
~Springfield
~Columbus
~Lake Forest (OH)
~Sleepy Hollow (OH)

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2021, 08:30:45 PM »
Piping Rock is one of those excellent courses that gets lost in golf-rich Long Island. I loved it.


Definitely gets lost in the shuffle.
Anywhere else and it would be tops in the city/region.
Great scale-great property.
Spent a lot of time there in the evenings in early 90's.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2021, 09:15:37 PM »
Piping Rock is one of those excellent courses that gets lost in golf-rich Long Island. I loved it.





Definitely gets lost in the shuffle.
Anywhere else and it would be tops in the city/region.
Great scale-great property.
Spent a lot of time there in the evenings in early 90's.


Jeff-I think the Gold Coast gets overlooked as a collection.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2021, 02:30:23 AM »
Hi Sean,

I am here, just not as frequently.  I lurk more than I post, but still enjoy the site.

Best,

Ted

That's good to know. Keep yer head down!

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Clyne

ward peyronnin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2021, 02:45:39 AM »
Jeez Yank "someone"?
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2021, 03:45:03 AM »
Jeez Yank "someone"?

Dude, I don't like to out folks.

Ciao
« Last Edit: March 25, 2023, 03:47:44 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2023: Clyne

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2021, 11:10:59 AM »
What a deep bench. Like the 2nd string at Alabama, who are HS all-Americans sitting the bench. NY and specifically Long Island is an embarrassment of riches. Just to take out let's say the top 5 in LI (Shinny, NGLA, Friars, Sebonack, Maidstone) and compared it to the entire state of .... Texas. Let's take Long Island's 6-10 vs. the entire state of Texas 1-5.
Long Island (no order and just an example you can add others I'm sure)
  • Garden City
  • Bethpage
  • Creek Club
  • Atlantic
  • Piping Rock
TexasI'll just post the Golf Digest top 10 and pick from there.
  • 1. (1) Whispering Pines G.C., Trinity ē
  • 2. (2) Dallas National G.C., Dallas ē
  • 3. (3) Bluejack National, Montgomery ≈
  • 4. (4) Colonial C.C., Fort Worth ≈
  • 5. (5) Preston Trail G.C., Dallas
  • 6. (6) Trinity Forest G.C. (pictured above), Dallas
  • 7. (7) Spanish Oaks G.C., Bee Cave
  • 8. (9) Austin G.C., Spicewood
  • 9. (10) Champions G.C. (Cypress Creek), Houston
  • 10. (16) Escondido G. & Lake Club, Horseshoe Bay
I wouldn't put any of those from Texas over the Long Island 6-10 even. So area is a tough neighborhood to compete with.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2021, 11:30:25 AM »
Also noteworthy on Long Island:

St. George's
Engineers
Rockaway Hunt
Maidstone
Quogue Field (9 holes)

P.S. I played grass court tennis once at Piping Rock. Edidie Moylan, my college tennis coach, was the tennis pro at Piping Rock over the summer.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 02:28:19 PM by David_Tepper »

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2021, 01:00:28 PM »
You can throw a blanket over Piping Rock, Creek Club, Engineers, Meadow Brook Club, Deepdale and North Shore which are all located on the ďGold CoastĒ in Nassau County.

Josh Bills

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2021, 01:26:10 PM »
Here is an aerial from 1938 to compare.



Jason Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2021, 10:57:02 AM »
Ted,


I too was lucky enough to play Piping a couple weeks back and I had very similar reactions. The practice area/polo field is probably the least interesting terrain on the property so itís hard to fathom how the course could have been better had it been used in the routing. I also loved the Road Hole at Piping; probably my favorite version of the template Iíve seen outside of TOC. Also of note is that #13 at Piping is all world. Photos just canít do that hole justice.


A couple other random thoughts about the visit:


1. On the deep bench conversation, we also played Wykagyl on the same trip and while I know NY is stocked, itís hard to believe it doesnít crack the top 20 in most publications. One in our group described the property akin to an inland version of Eastward Ho due to the land movement. 


2. Our morning at Piping was followed by an afternoon at Creek Club. We were about equally split between the two as to which is a better golf course. While I think the Creek might be amongst the top pieces of land for a course Iíve ever seen (Pac Dunes, Sand Hollow, and Cruden Bay being my other favorites), I think that Piping is actually a better overall golf course.


Iíd be curious as to othersí opinions on this board on Creek vs. Piping. And just to clarify, Creek is OUTSTANDING. I am in no way saying itís average or overrated. I just think Piping is that good.

Britt Rife

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2021, 05:27:34 PM »
I always wished that Ran had a more extensive write-up of this course.  I think he only covered 2 holes.


And "Bogey Man" George Plimpton was a member, which in itself makes it worthy of greater study.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2021, 05:30:03 PM by Britt Rife »

Ted Sturges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2021, 10:41:27 AM »
Piping Rock vs. The Creek


1    Halved    All Square
2    PR             PR 1 up
3    PR             PR 2 up
4    Halved       PR 2 up
5    TC             PR 1 up
6    TC             AS
7    Halved       AS
8    PR             PR 1 up
9    PR             PR 2 up
10  TC             PR 1 up
11  TC             AS
12   PR            PR 1 up
13   PR            PR 2 up
14   PR            PR 3 up
15   Halved      PR 3 up
16   TC            PR 2 up
17   Halved      PR 2 up
18   Halved       PR wins 2 up


Andrew Carr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2023, 09:59:34 AM »
Bumping this topic as it has the 1938 Piping Rock Club aerial.  After getting to San Francisco Golf Club and having a strong argument that Tillie's replacement of the original 11th Redan is an Eden template less the properly positioned Shelly bunker and without an Eden bunker behind, but it's a solid fall off and not every Eden template has that bunker, I cannot help but notice the Shelly bunker was present in this 1938 aerial of Piping Rock but is missing today.  Creek Club and NGLA have their Shelly bunkers on their Eden holes, so why doesn't Piping Rock?  I know that bunker ought not get a lot of play, but as wonderful as the hole exists today, I cannot help but think that it would be even better if that bunker were restored.  Does anyone know the last time that bunker was at PRC?


And I am sorry for the potential controversy my flippant claim that Tillie built an Eden template at SFGC is.  Would be interested to hear Phil Young's opinion on that matter.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2023, 08:01:51 PM »
IIRC, Robert Trent Jones rebuilt the 11th green in the fifties or sixties and thatís probably when the bunker disappeared.  None of the bunkering on 11 was anything like the aerial above when I supervised Mr Dyeís renovation in 1985 . . . I had to add a version of the Strath.

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2023, 06:53:17 AM »
Piping Rock is one of those excellent courses that gets lost in golf-rich Long Island. I loved it.
Just played Piping Rock last week for the first time and the greens are really wonderful. They certainly donít hold much for us amateurs, but most green fronts are open and you can run or release your approach in.  Generous off the tee, the short par 4ís added some excitement as well. One of the best vistas of an inland course from the clubhouse overlooking the old polo fields. Reminds me of the Valley Clubís expansive view (albeit without the ocean in the distance) with a large scale.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2023, 08:50:41 PM »

Just played Piping Rock last week for the first time and the greens are really wonderful.


The coolest green at Piping Rock is the 15th, which gets little mention because it isn't an obvious template hole.  There is a snake-like ridge running through the green from back to front, and you do NOT want to be on the wrong side of it.

Andrew Carr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2023, 09:44:10 PM »

I certainly don't agree as I think the Redan at Piping is the best Macdonald ever built.  I think NGLA only gets the nod because of the water in the background, but I know what you mean with 15.  I've been fortunate to play there a handful of times and the current super has brought back some rear sections of the green that have allowed them to pin deeper into the green.  Those locations are highlighting that snake-like ridge you are talking about and I do agree it's amazing.  If only they didn't get rid of the sand scrub on the walk off the 16th tee.  Also, I hope that triangle of trees between 15-17 gets removed so the expanse of the property is felt throughout the back 9 as much as it's present on the front.


Overall it's amazing for the second best course in Locust Valley.


Sorry I'm one of those that thinks the Creek is better.


Just played Piping Rock last week for the first time and the greens are really wonderful.


The coolest green at Piping Rock is the 15th, which gets little mention because it isn't an obvious template hole.  There is a snake-like ridge running through the green from back to front, and you do NOT want to be on the wrong side of it.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2023, 09:55:09 PM »

I certainly don't agree as I think the Redan at Piping is the best Macdonald ever built.  I think NGLA only gets the nod because of the water in the background


The Redan at NGLA is far superior because you can see the surface of the green from the tee . . . not because you can see the bay in the background.  In fact, until the early 2000's you couldn't see the bay in the background because of all the scrub growth.


But no need to apologize about liking The Creek better than Piping Rock.  I'm another of its fans.

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Piping Rock
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2023, 11:31:11 AM »
I had the pleasure of playing Piping Rock for the first time two weeks ago.  I went in with fairly high expectations and they were exceeded.  Great routing, great piece of property, great place. 


Favorite holes were 3(!), 8(!), 9(!)...and the entire back 9(!!).


8-   A great adaptation of the Road hole!  Not sure I've played a Road hole green with that much elevation change from the back to the front of the putting green.


9-   Perhaps the largest biarritz green I have ever seen (and they only mow the back portion as putting green!)


The back 9 was spectacular.  Hard to pick out favorite holes on the back side because they were all so well-presented.  A wonderful natural Eden (11th), a funky alps/punchbowl (12th), a terrifying Knoll hole (13th), and then the great holes built over the severe land that comprised 15 and 16.  Close it out with a wonderful Short (17th), followed by a great par 5 home hole with the stately clubhouse located majestically behind the 18th green. 


As a set of one shot holes (redan, biarritz, eden and short) I would put this set up against any of the Mc/Raynors I have seen.


Hard to understand why C.B. MacDonald would be mad at not having the polo field (practice field) land to use in his routing...not sure which hole he would have given up had he been able to build holes on the polo area. 


Our group had a spectacular day at Piping Rock!  I will eagerly await a return visit!


TS


All I know is that after playing it once it made my short list of "if I could only play one golf course of the rest of my life"

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