[Patrick_Mucci]

With the incredible increases in the distance golfers are hitting the ball,  what holes have retained their strategic challenge and why ?

It seems that the par 3's especially short par 3's have faired the best.  Holes such as # 7 at Pebble Beach, # 12 at ANGC,
# 6 at NGLA, # 2 at GCGC.

It seems that short par 4's are next, followed by medium and long par 4's, then long par 5's followed by short par 5's.

What other SPECIFIC holes have retained their strategic interest and challenge, and why ?

[Jeff Goldman]

Patrick,

Has #8 at Pebble?  There's just so far you can drive it, and laying back for safety still gives at least a longer shot (albeit not as long as before) than risking the cliff.  And deciding how to play the 2nd shot still may be an issue.

Jeff Goldman

[tonyt]

I agree about short par 3s and 4s.

Think Sawgrass #17, and Phoenix #17. Kingston Heath #15 and #3 lose nothing to the onslaught of length.

[Mike_Clayton]

tonyt

Do you think holes like 15 at Victoria and 10 at RMW are a little more difficult because it is easier to reach them and it's more tempting to take the unwise gamble?
The hardest par three green to hit in Melbourne is still the 17th at Woodlands -150 yards.

[tonyt]

Good call Mike. When I was caddying, nobody who played those courses a lot did anything other than position their tee shot from where they wanted a pitch. Both holes very "3able" from position A on the fairway.

Occasionally someone in your group would roll the dice, but at RMW #10 the best they'd do is front right bunker (weird decision to go for it considering the angle of the green making it quite lucky to be on and not around the green with a tough second). Haven't played Vic #15 or seen it played since you've touched it, but I much preferred the look when I walked it during The Oz Open last November. Another position shot.

Kingston Heath #3 to me represents almost the ultimate in shaking the golfer by the collar and demanding they play for position. Gets so narrow close to the green, and can be incredibly difficult to pitch from inside 30-40 yards.

BTW, I get my first look at Ranfurlie in a couple of weeks. Matt Ecob gave me a rundown of your tour of the course with him. I'll pass on my report card  

[A_Clay_Man]

Pat, Are specifics neccesary?
 There was an observation in one of the Master's post-mortums that the longer and longer courses yield the best short gamer. If this analysis is correct or at least close, doesn't it imply that the majority of challenge and talent needed to win is generated at the greensite and therefore one could conclude that any hole with a thought provoking challenging greensite and surrounds will be high on your list of those resistant to length.

Afterall, a 358 yard drive scores the same as a six inch putt.

[Patrick_Mucci]

A Clayman,

That's true, but I've found it very difficult to make birdie from
Out-of-bounds, and, it helps when your medium iron shot to the green leaves you 20 feet from the hole for eagle, settling for that tap in 6 incher for birdie.

It seems that the shorter, perhaps more protected holes, have resisted the influence in lenght better than their longer counterparts, where
DISTANCE WAS PART OF THE PRIMARY STRATEGY.

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