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Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Reed Does It Again
« on: January 30, 2021, 03:51:53 PM »
   Patrick Reed just picked up his allegedly imbedded ball before official arrived.  Showed him a pitch mark and was given relief.  The ball bounced before it came to rest.  Enough is enough.

JohnVDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2021, 04:06:02 PM »
He did nothing wrong.  He is allowed to lift the ball to see if it is embedded. He wasnít sure so he got a referee there to confirm it was. He was smart enough to set it down so he couldnít be accused of cleaning it while waiting for the ruling




He said he was told it didnít bounce, not that it matters.  Balls can embed after they bounce and you still get relief.

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2021, 04:10:57 PM »
   Sorry, no way.  You donít pick a ball up and then ask for a ruling. You call a competitor over to confirm.  The chances of a ball imbedding in deep rough after it bounces a couple of feet in the air are slim and none.  Reed probably showed the official the first bounce.  Heís got a history.

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2021, 04:22:23 PM »
   Nobilo and Faldo agree with me.

JohnVDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2021, 04:25:55 PM »
The rules allow you to lift a ball to see if it is embedded with calling anyone over.


If he pointed out a different location, Iím sure that can be figured out fro TV coverage. In which case he should be DQíed. He marked he location with a tee before lifting the ball.  Unless he somehow moved the tee when no one was looking, he pointed to the correct location.


As for Nickís statement about never seeing a ball plug on the second bounce, he is full of it as Iíve seen it plenty of times.


I donít like Reed much, but Iím not going to start accusing him of anything unless there is some proof of it and you and others suspicions donít amount to anything.

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2021, 04:29:25 PM »
   You really believe a ball can plug in deep rough after a 2 foot bounce? 

JohnVDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2021, 04:38:08 PM »
When it was hit from a bunker so that it had a lot of spin and they got well over an inch of rain yesterday which might have puddled up agains the edge of the cart path that was right there, yes itís possible.  Also, the referee checked it and agreed there was an indentation.  It doesnít have to be deep, just as long as it broke the surface of the ground.

JohnVDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2021, 04:41:37 PM »
If he took the drop without calling in the official, I might have been more skeptical, but Iíll believe the tour official in this case.

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2021, 05:02:06 PM »
Jim,  do you know who you are arguing with?  John is too modest but he recently retired as a rules official and has been an instructor at the USGA Rules Schools for many years.  I suspect a lot of us don't trust Reed but if John gives you a rules opinion, you can almost invariably take it to the bank.

Drew Harvie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2021, 05:09:17 PM »
You can only lift your golf ball if you make it clear what you're doing (ie, you're identifying if it is your golf ball, or if it is plugged), and it did not seem like he did that to any of his playing competitors, and only mentioned it to the rules official AFTER he had done it, which is makes it seem like he was cheating

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2021, 05:13:18 PM »
  Chamblee just tweeted that he will address the ruling at 6:00 tonight.  Watch for yourself.  We havenít heard the end of this.
   Check out Chambleeís tweet.  For what itís worth, the overwhelming consensus of his followers is that Reed cheated.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 05:21:31 PM by Jim_Coleman »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2021, 05:21:01 PM »

As for Nickís statement about never seeing a ball plug on the second bounce, he is full of it as Iíve seen it plenty of times.



Of course he hasn't.  He was usually 100+ yards away from where balls landed.

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2021, 05:26:16 PM »
   Sorry, no way.  You donít pick a ball up and then ask for a ruling. You call a competitor over to confirm.  The chances of a ball imbedding in deep rough after it bounces a couple of feet in the air are slim and none.  Reed probably showed the official the first bounce.  Heís got a history.


I believe you no longer have to call over a competitor
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.Ē Jimmy Buffett

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2021, 05:32:55 PM »

As for Nickís statement about never seeing a ball plug on the second bounce, he is full of it as Iíve seen it plenty of times.



Of course he hasn't.  He was usually 100+ yards away from where balls landed.


I have to say that in the 46 years Iíve been playing golf I donít think Iíve ever hit a shot that I saw bounce that ended up imbedded but Iím sure itís possible if the ball lands on a dry or hard spot.  You would think that if itís that wet a ball wouldnít bounce.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.Ē Jimmy Buffett

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2021, 05:34:02 PM »
How does the prize money situation work?
If a player is DQíd does that mean the rest of the field who make the cut receive more prize money? If so it should be a damn good incentive for playing partners to watch like a hawk what the other guys/gals in their group are doing including refusing to sign cards if necessary.

And one more thing ........ betting on golf ....... if a player does or doesnít get away with something a bit naughty there could be a lot of angry punters around, including potentially some in the field or on the premises ...... Pandoraís Box time.

Atb

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2021, 05:39:53 PM »
Chamblee will discuss at 6:00. Judge for yourself.

Drew Harvie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2021, 05:50:46 PM »
   Sorry, no way.  You donít pick a ball up and then ask for a ruling. You call a competitor over to confirm.  The chances of a ball imbedding in deep rough after it bounces a couple of feet in the air are slim and none.  Reed probably showed the official the first bounce.  Heís got a history.


I believe you no longer have to call over a competitor


Interesting. Not sure I like that. Everyone still does, though, at least at the events I play

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2021, 05:53:39 PM »
I do too out of habit but I think they did away with it a few years ago to speed up play.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.Ē Jimmy Buffett

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2021, 06:08:03 PM »
I hope Mr. Reed is being honest, but I wouldn't fly to Vegas to place that wager.


How does a ball bounce on grass 10 feet in the air a day after heavy rain, then travel maybe 40 feet from that point, and embed? Interesting drainage they have at Torrey Pines.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2021, 06:18:45 PM »
Faldo is always anti American players. If Rahm or some other European player had done the same thing he would have praised them.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2021, 06:21:10 PM »
At finals of q school one year in the last round, we were playing at Grenelefe.


I hit a tee shot on a par four that I saw bounce once and kick tot he right


It ended up in a pitch mark from a different shot in the middle of the fairway


Not saying it happened or did not for Reed, but he marked his ball and brought an official over who felt the pitch mark


If Reed didnít see it bounce  and no one else said it did this is what it is


But it is tough to carry past choices around

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2021, 06:23:12 PM »
How does the prize money situation work?
If a player is DQíd does that mean the rest of the field who make the cut receive more prize money? If so it should be a damn good incentive for playing partners to watch like a hawk what the other guys/gals in their group are doing including refusing to sign cards if necessary.

And one more thing ........ betting on golf ....... if a player does or doesnít get away with something a bit naughty there could be a lot of angry punters around, including potentially some in the field or on the premises ...... Pandoraís Box time.

Atb


Typically after the. Cut, players received last place money (unofficial money though) when they did not play the full tournament. But that when I played

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2021, 06:24:38 PM »
Reed said: ďIf the ball bounced, thereís no way it embedded.Ē  End of discussion.  The official was intimidated.

David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2021, 06:28:55 PM »
I believe you no longer have to call over a competitor


Who could have predicted that this change to the rule could be abused by cheaters.   ::) ::)


the real problem here seems to be the rules being changed to allow cheaters like Reed to cheat.


This should be embarrassing for the USGA and PGA Tour.  The constant softening of the rules is a big cause of all this.


EDIT: Not sure of the history of the embedded ball relief rule off the fairway but seems like more USGA/PGA Tour pandering to me too.  We sure don't get it at my club.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 06:34:24 PM by David_Elvins »
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reed Does It Again
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2021, 06:29:46 PM »
Chamblee will discuss at 6:00. Judge for yourself.


Iím of a divided mind, as we say in the law.


Iím no fan of Reed. His past actions are consistent with those of a rules shirker. Having said that, the only opinion of Chamblee that Iíd endorse would relate to hair products.


He says ďthe whole scene was tough to watch.Ē  Chamblee is always hard to watch IMHO.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

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