[Jim_Coleman]

   Patrick Reed just picked up his allegedly imbedded ball before official arrived.  Showed him a pitch mark and was given relief.  The ball bounced before it came to rest.  Enough is enough.

[JohnVDB]

He did nothing wrong.  He is allowed to lift the ball to see if it is embedded. He wasn’t sure so he got a referee there to confirm it was. He was smart enough to set it down so he couldn’t be accused of cleaning it while waiting for the ruling




He said he was told it didn’t bounce, not that it matters.  Balls can embed after they bounce and you still get relief.

[Jim_Coleman]

   Sorry, no way.  You don’t pick a ball up and then ask for a ruling. You call a competitor over to confirm.  The chances of a ball imbedding in deep rough after it bounces a couple of feet in the air are slim and none.  Reed probably showed the official the first bounce.  He’s got a history.

[Jim_Coleman]

   Nobilo and Faldo agree with me.

[JohnVDB]

The rules allow you to lift a ball to see if it is embedded with calling anyone over.


If he pointed out a different location, I’m sure that can be figured out fro TV coverage. In which case he should be DQ’ed. He marked he location with a tee before lifting the ball.  Unless he somehow moved the tee when no one was looking, he pointed to the correct location.


As for Nick’s statement about never seeing a ball plug on the second bounce, he is full of it as I’ve seen it plenty of times.


I don’t like Reed much, but I’m not going to start accusing him of anything unless there is some proof of it and you and others suspicions don’t amount to anything.

[Jim_Coleman]

   You really believe a ball can plug in deep rough after a 2 foot bounce? 

[JohnVDB]

When it was hit from a bunker so that it had a lot of spin and they got well over an inch of rain yesterday which might have puddled up agains the edge of the cart path that was right there, yes it’s possible.  Also, the referee checked it and agreed there was an indentation.  It doesn’t have to be deep, just as long as it broke the surface of the ground.

[JohnVDB]

If he took the drop without calling in the official, I might have been more skeptical, but I’ll believe the tour official in this case.

[SL_Solow]

Jim,  do you know who you are arguing with?  John is too modest but he recently retired as a rules official and has been an instructor at the USGA Rules Schools for many years.  I suspect a lot of us don't trust Reed but if John gives you a rules opinion, you can almost invariably take it to the bank.

[Drew Harvie]

You can only lift your golf ball if you make it clear what you're doing (ie, you're identifying if it is your golf ball, or if it is plugged), and it did not seem like he did that to any of his playing competitors, and only mentioned it to the rules official AFTER he had done it, which is makes it seem like he was cheating

[Jim_Coleman]

  Chamblee just tweeted that he will address the ruling at 6:00 tonight.  Watch for yourself.  We haven’t heard the end of this.
   Check out Chamblee’s tweet.  For what it’s worth, the overwhelming consensus of his followers is that Reed cheated.

[Tom_Doak]

As for Nick’s statement about never seeing a ball plug on the second bounce, he is full of it as I’ve seen it plenty of times.

Of course he hasn't.  He was usually 100+ yards away from where balls landed.

[Rob Marshall]

   Sorry, no way.  You don’t pick a ball up and then ask for a ruling. You call a competitor over to confirm.  The chances of a ball imbedding in deep rough after it bounces a couple of feet in the air are slim and none.  Reed probably showed the official the first bounce.  He’s got a history.

I believe you no longer have to call over a competitor

[Rob Marshall]

As for Nick’s statement about never seeing a ball plug on the second bounce, he is full of it as I’ve seen it plenty of times.

Of course he hasn't.  He was usually 100+ yards away from where balls landed.

I have to say that in the 46 years I’ve been playing golf I don’t think I’ve ever hit a shot that I saw bounce that ended up imbedded but I’m sure it’s possible if the ball lands on a dry or hard spot.  You would think that if it’s that wet a ball wouldn’t bounce.

[Thomas Dai]

How does the prize money situation work?
If a player is DQ’d does that mean the rest of the field who make the cut receive more prize money? If so it should be a damn good incentive for playing partners to watch like a hawk what the other guys/gals in their group are doing including refusing to sign cards if necessary.

And one more thing ........ betting on golf ....... if a player does or doesn’t get away with something a bit naughty there could be a lot of angry punters around, including potentially some in the field or on the premises ...... Pandora’s Box time.

Atb

[Jim_Coleman]

Chamblee will discuss at 6:00. Judge for yourself.

[Drew Harvie]

   Sorry, no way.  You don’t pick a ball up and then ask for a ruling. You call a competitor over to confirm.  The chances of a ball imbedding in deep rough after it bounces a couple of feet in the air are slim and none.  Reed probably showed the official the first bounce.  He’s got a history.

I believe you no longer have to call over a competitor

Interesting. Not sure I like that. Everyone still does, though, at least at the events I play

[Rob Marshall]

I do too out of habit but I think they did away with it a few years ago to speed up play.

[Tim_Cronin]

I hope Mr. Reed is being honest, but I wouldn't fly to Vegas to place that wager.


How does a ball bounce on grass 10 feet in the air a day after heavy rain, then travel maybe 40 feet from that point, and embed? Interesting drainage they have at Torrey Pines.

[Tim Leahy]

Faldo is always anti American players. If Rahm or some other European player had done the same thing he would have praised them.

[Pat Burke]

At finals of q school one year in the last round, we were playing at Grenelefe.


I hit a tee shot on a par four that I saw bounce once and kick tot he right


It ended up in a pitch mark from a different shot in the middle of the fairway


Not saying it happened or did not for Reed, but he marked his ball and brought an official over who felt the pitch mark


If Reed didn’t see it bounce  and no one else said it did this is what it is


But it is tough to carry past choices around

[Pat Burke]

How does the prize money situation work?
If a player is DQ’d does that mean the rest of the field who make the cut receive more prize money? If so it should be a damn good incentive for playing partners to watch like a hawk what the other guys/gals in their group are doing including refusing to sign cards if necessary.

And one more thing ........ betting on golf ....... if a player does or doesn’t get away with something a bit naughty there could be a lot of angry punters around, including potentially some in the field or on the premises ...... Pandora’s Box time.

Atb

Typically after the. Cut, players received last place money (unofficial money though) when they did not play the full tournament. But that when I played

[Jim_Coleman]

Reed said: “If the ball bounced, there’s no way it embedded.”  End of discussion.  The official was intimidated.

[David_Elvins]

I believe you no longer have to call over a competitor

Who could have predicted that this change to the rule could be abused by cheaters.   


the real problem here seems to be the rules being changed to allow cheaters like Reed to cheat.


This should be embarrassing for the USGA and PGA Tour.  The constant softening of the rules is a big cause of all this.


EDIT: Not sure of the history of the embedded ball relief rule off the fairway but seems like more USGA/PGA Tour pandering to me too.  We sure don't get it at my club.

[Terry Lavin]

Chamblee will discuss at 6:00. Judge for yourself.

I’m of a divided mind, as we say in the law.


I’m no fan of Reed. His past actions are consistent with those of a rules shirker. Having said that, the only opinion of Chamblee that I’d endorse would relate to hair products.


He says “the whole scene was tough to watch.”  Chamblee is always hard to watch IMHO.

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