[Jeff Schley]

I, like everyone else here, believe municipal golf is a necessity for the game of golf to grow and thrive in the future. Economic reasons to allow the youth to participate, while also allowing all walks of life to meet in a neutral cost effective way to share fellowship while gaining health and recreation benefits.

According to the National Golf Foundation there are 2,900 government owned golf courses or munis of some sort or another.  and 67% cover their operating expenses.
https://www.thengfq.com/2019/06/better-understanding-municipal-golf/

Back in June of 2019 they were going to conduct a study in depth about municipal golf in the USA. I don't see their report anywhere on the website and would be very curious to see their data and findings.


Simple question: When will we see a new municipal golf course built? Not a renovation or restoration a new course built?
Consider the following:

• Are there any new muni courses planned (Rudovsky's list to reference) presently?
• Many consider in the USA that there are too many courses and contraction will continue to happen.
• Government budgets are stretched thin at the local level, so to find the capital for a municipality to either utilize their existing land (or buy land) for a new course at $5 or so million USD is doubtful.
• Maybe that money is best utilized in improving what is already on the ground? What ever happened to the Chicago Jackson Park project for example?
• Maybe that money is best utilized on creating more First Tee programs/ranges?

I offer no insights or grand plans, only curious when (if ever) will we see a new municipal (not public, government owned) golf course built?

[Paul Rudovsky]

Simple question: When will we see a new municipal golf course built? Not a renovation or restoration a new course built?



Jeff--

Sounds like as simple question, but ain't so simple. 

We now have 490 worldwide projects on the list (fescue.github.io).  These are projects with opening dates from 1/1/2020 forward and are categorized as All New, Total Rebuilds, Renovations, and Restorations.  In concept, Total Rebuilds means most of the routing has changed (along with greens, tees, etc etc) on the site of an old course that was bulldozed under (Wynn's course in Las Vegas which replaced the old Desert Inn being a famous example).  Our 490 includes 59 USA New Courses and 20 USA Total Rebuilds (I may type Rebuilds for brevity).

As you will see from the list below...it is often difficult to know real ownership...and the reasons are varied, but in some cases gov'ts may want to hide the fact that they won the courses in part because of the bad name "Muni's" have in terms of conditioning etc.  But here are some potentials:

REBUILDS
1.  Belmont in Virginia...was Hermitage (site of 1949 PGA Champ) and is being rebuilt into a First Tee facility w 12 full length holes and a practice facility
2.  Boars Head Birdwood in VA...this seems to be owned by the University of VA Foundation...the lawyers can decide if that makes it govt owned but looks like yes to me
3.  Bob O'Connor Golf Course in Pittsburgh PA...was the old Schenley Park being rebuilt
4.  Lake Oswego in OR is a muni and this project converts an 18 hole par 3 to a 9 hole "executive" course
5.  Jackson Parish in LA
6.  Lake Charles Muni in LA which previously was Mallard Cove
7.  The total rebuild go the University of Indiana golf course (now PFAU course)...as with #2 above...sounds like govt owned to me

NEW
1.  Avinar in FL...18 hole par 3 in Palm Beach Gardens...build on land that the Avinar private community "gave to the city" and the project is financed by a $14 million public improvement bond"...you can decide if this counts as a muni.  [size=78%]https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/local/pbgardens/2021/01/20/palm-beach-gardens-plans-build-par-3-golf-course-avenir/4207791001/[/size]
[/size]
[/size]
[/size]2.  Seminole Legacy in FL...Nicklaus design of new course for Florida State University (like two other state university courses listed above)...but careful reading seems to indicate this is a Total rebuild as there was a course here before and "only one hole remaining from the original routing"I looked at available websites for the others (although about 5-10 have no website) and based on cursory look, they seem to be privately owned.[size=78%]
[/size]Hope the above answers your [size=78%]

[Mike_Young]

IMHO I would never listen to NGF.I have built six muni projects over 30 something years and I think all have to be subsidized and I think economic conditions in many places are making that a tough thing to do politically. 

I see a couple of reasons why many muni courses have such shortfalls and I emphasize the word "many" not all.  Some are in the right location, can get the right green fee and generate a good product. 

The first reason I see is that the politicians want to give their constituents a "deal" and thus the fees charged are not enough to cover the golf course expenses.  The other is corruption.  I can comfortably say this because I have the videos, tapes and text to back it up on one project.  I have seen the most incompetent, lazy, corrupt golf supt I have ever encountered on a muni project.  It was nothing for him to have his employees on muni time working for his landscaping company with muni chemicals and machines.  It was nothing to see them spraying another golf course for "cash".  It was nothing to see the point of sale not being used by employees of the proshop.  All of this is because rarely does anyone in the city understand golf operations and whomever they hire out at the course can almost do as they please.  I am quite sure what I have described is the exception and not the norm.  However, so often the city grows tired of dealing with it all and hires a management team so that there are no city employees to compensate.  This creates a level of mediocrity that is accepted as "muni golf" by so many places.  At least one major management company has made a living specializing in such places. 

Muni golf can work if operated properly but politicians make that hard to do.  I think the future of "muni golf" is in foundations operating these entities and not the cities themselves.  It allows for a group of concerned citizens and businesses to donate to such a project and operate it outside of the municipality.  People can get the deduction.  It's a much better "feel good" than a First Tee " etc and looks like a few are in the works.  Same idea is also  at places like Congaree. 

And lastly, I'm against muni golf if the market is being served well by a private entity,  public facilty.  Muni should not be coming in and operating at a deficit while that business pays property taxes to fund it.  JMO

[Tom_Doak]

Muni golf can work if operated properly but politicians make that hard to do.  I think the future of "muni golf" is in foundations operating these entities and not the cities themselves.  It allows for a group of concerned citizens and businesses to donate to such a project and operate it outside of the municipality.  People can get the deduction.  It's a much better "feel good" than a First Tee " etc and looks like a few are in the works.

And lastly, I'm against muni golf if the market is being served well by a private entity,  public facilty.  Muni should not be coming in and operating at a deficit while that business pays property taxes to fund it.  JMO

Mike:


I agree with your general point, but there is a huge difference between a place like CommonGround -- run as a non-profit by the Colorado Golf Association -- and some other places which use their charitable foundation as a way to write off the expenses of maintaining their course.

[Mike_Young]

Muni golf can work if operated properly but politicians make that hard to do.  I think the future of "muni golf" is in foundations operating these entities and not the cities themselves.  It allows for a group of concerned citizens and businesses to donate to such a project and operate it outside of the municipality.  People can get the deduction.  It's a much better "feel good" than a First Tee " etc and looks like a few are in the works.

And lastly, I'm against muni golf if the market is being served well by a private entity,  public facilty.  Muni should not be coming in and operating at a deficit while that business pays property taxes to fund it.  JMO

Mike:


I agree with your general point, but there is a huge difference between a place like CommonGround -- run as a non-profit by the Colorado Golf Association -- and some other places which use their charitable foundation as a way to write off the expenses of maintaining their course.

Agree 110%.  More places are going to go to that model.  I'm not sure some of those that are using such to write off expenses etc are going to get to remain that way.  The Common Ground model is the proper way to do muni golf...gonna see it more and more...Ga State Golf Assoc just did the same thing...

[Scott Weersing]

Another new municipal is the reversible 9 hole course in Stuart, Florida. https://www.martin.fl.us/GolfCourse


I would call that a renovation much like WP9.


The issue with municipal golf is that people opposed to investing in new municipal golf have examples that appear to have not worked out. They could mention the cost of Chambers Bay. Or Ferry Point. Or Butterfield Trail in El Paso. Or Torrey Pines. Or TPC Harding Park.


On the other hand, there are successes like Memorial Park in Houston, Winter Park Nine, Rustic Canyon, Charleston Muni and Baylands Golf Links.  And eventually with East Potomac.


I think it works best with a private-public partnership (PPP) for golf.

[Mark_Fine]

Jeff,
I don't know when or if many new ones will be built but I am happy to see at least some staying as golf courses vs turning into housing developments or warehouse locations.  We have had two local ones that have had money invested into them of late for improvements and the results have been very positive. 

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff,
I don't know when or if many new ones will be built but I am happy to see at least some staying as golf courses vs turning into housing developments or warehouse locations.  We have had two local ones that have had money invested into them of late for improvements and the results have been very positive.

What was the impetus for money being invested in them?


I don't think Memorial Park would have happened without the Tour event being committed there.  That's what assures all the private donors that their investment will be looked after.  Most such investors are skeptics about about municipal government, and not without precedent -- if they were doing a great job of maintaining their courses, they wouldn't need much investment!

[Tim_Weiman]

Whatever else happens with muni courses, I hope Wilmington (NC) Municipal is preserved. It works so well for a wide variety of skill levels. Can’t imagine that there are many munis that do this as well.


An old timer who said he has played the course for almost 40 years told me the accountants “downtown” weren’t thrilled with the place. It would be very sad to see it lost.

[Jeff Schley]

Muni golf can work if operated properly but politicians make that hard to do.  I think the future of "muni golf" is in foundations operating these entities and not the cities themselves.  It allows for a group of concerned citizens and businesses to donate to such a project and operate it outside of the municipality.  People can get the deduction.  It's a much better "feel good" than a First Tee " etc and looks like a few are in the works.  Same idea is also  at places like Congaree. 

Thanks for the deep insights Mike. It sounds like the National Links Trust model in DC yes? The NLT negotiated a long term lease (50 years or so) with the parks service to operate the 3 DC courses and then contracted with Troon to run them.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I have been commissioned to at least route a new muni.  Still a long way to go before it may be reality, but there are still a few areas that need one, for various reasons, despite the downturn in golf Pre-Covid.

[Mike_Young]

Muni golf can work if operated properly but politicians make that hard to do.  I think the future of "muni golf" is in foundations operating these entities and not the cities themselves.  It allows for a group of concerned citizens and businesses to donate to such a project and operate it outside of the municipality.  People can get the deduction.  It's a much better "feel good" than a First Tee " etc and looks like a few are in the works.  Same idea is also  at places like Congaree. 

Thanks for the deep insights Mike. It sounds like the National Links Trust model in DC yes? The NLT negotiated a long term lease (50 years or so) with the parks service to operate the 3 DC courses and then contracted with Troon to run them.

YES..I think the NLT may be the future model...that way private enterprise can make it work..

[Mark_Fine]

Tom,
To answer your question, at Bethlehem GC, a new GM by the name of Larry Kelch]ner took over as general manager in April 2018.  The golf course was losing money (and golfers) and Kelchner was determined to do his best to upgrade the course and the facility and give it a chance to thrive in an increasingly competitive public market.  He knew it had to operate more efficiently and he also needed to offer a better overall product.  He got a decent but limited budget to work with and we both like to think (time will tell) if all the improvements made will provide a lasting difference.  So far so good with lots of positives but most courses have done well in the Covid environment. 

At Allentown municipal, there have been similar reasons to make improvements and the team there has done an outstanding job.  They have not had the budget that Bethlehem has had but are chipping away at changes and upgrades to the facility and to the golf course.  I am also very happy to say that the super there, Chris Reverie, has been named by turfnet.com as a finalist for Golf Course Super of the Year.  It would be great to see someone working with a minimal budget and doing more with less win such an honor.  Really hope he wins but still an honor to be recognized.  Well deserved.   

[archie_struthers]

 


Been here before, no [size=78%] mas![/size]

[Ronald Montesano]

Hopefully, soon, in Buffalo: http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/a-chance-encounter-with-chris-cochran-of-nicklaus-design/

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