[Adam Lawrence]

As Tom says Neil Crafter is the expert on this. From my records his OD's include the following though he did a lot of redesign work.
Australia & NZ
Royal Melbourne [West]
New South Wales GC [original routing but Apperly made many changes]
Titirangi [NZ]
Argentina
Jockey Club [ Red ]
Jockey Club [ Blue ]
England
Alwoodley
Blackpool
Bolton Old Links
Bramall Park
Cavendish
Cleckheaton & District
Darlington
Douglas [Isle Of Man]
Garforth
Hadley Wood
Hazel Grove
Lilley Brook
Low Laithes
Moortown
Morecambe
Oakdale
Reddish Vale
Sand Moor
Shipley
Sitwell Park
Sutton Coldfield
Teignmouth
Temple Newsam [Lord Irwin]
Worcester Golf & Country Club
Scotland
Bonnyton
Hazlehead [MacKenzie]
Pitreavie [Dunfermline]
Uruguay
Chimont [Club de Golf del Cerro]
Uruguay [Club de Golf del Uruguay]
USA
Augusta National
Crystal Downs
Cypress Point
Green Hills
Haggin Oaks
Meadow Club
Northwood
Ohio State University [Gray]
Ohio State University [Scarlet]
Pasatiempo
Sharp Park
University of Michigan
Valley Club of Montecito

How much is/was original AMaC and how much is a re-model or tweaks by him at some stage is debatable but to places he worked in GB&I you could probably add -


Western-Super-Mare
Broadway
Malvern (The Worcestershire)
Walsall
Stanmore
Halifax
Nelson
South Moor
Crosslands Heath
Blairgowrie
Grange-over-Sands
West Herts
Bingley St Ives
Headingly
Harrogate
Pollok
Seaton Carew
Muskerry
Rhayader (NLE)


atb

The Doctor did not work at Bingley St Ives _at all_. It was his brother Charles.

[Thomas Dai]

“The Doctor did not work at Bingley St Ives _at all_. It was his brother Charles.”

Curious. The BStIGC Club website history only mentions Dr Alister, no mention of brother Major Charles and the Club are members of the AMacK Society.
Atb

[Adam Lawrence]

“The Doctor did not work at Bingley St Ives _at all_. It was his brother Charles.”

Curious. The BStIGC Club website history only mentions Dr Alister, no mention of brother Major Charles and the Club are members of the AMacK Society.
Atb

It fails to note that the first nine holes were created in 1930, by which time he was mostly living in the US, and it did not become an 18 hole course until 1934, by which time he was dead.

[Duncan Cheslett]

As Adam says, it is almost certain that Dr Mac had no involvement at Bingley. The club seem to believe that he did a design in the 20s which was subsequently built by his brother but they don’t have any evidence of this as far as I know.


An obvious omission from Kevin’s and Dai’s lists is Bury, a very good and original Dr Mac course near Manchester. Gordon Irvine has recently been appointed with a view to restoring it to its original moorland character.

[Thomas Dai]

Here’s the Alister MacKenzie Society’s U.K. website - https://alistermackenzie.co.uk/ - lists member clubs and links to the Dr Mack’ chronology timeline.

Atb

[James Reader]

Coincidentally I’ve just finished reading Tom’s (and others’) excellent book on Mackenzie and have been looking at the Mackenzie timeline as well.


One course mentioned on the latter that I haven’t seen on any other lists - or, indeed, heard anything about - is Dore & Totley, near Sheffield.  The timeline appears to suggest it was an original design from 1914.


Does anyone know anything about the course?  I can only find a few passing references on here. Intriguingly, the club’s website (which doesn’t mention Mackenzie at all as far as i can see) says that there are 23 holes, with the “original 18 hole course” played in the winter and 5 new holes used in the summer. The new holes were opened in 2005 when the rest of the holes were also redesigned.  Is it too much to hope that there are at least 5 original Mackenzie holes left on the winter course?  Oh to be able to go and have a look this weekend (or indeed any weekend soon!).


The most surprising reference in the course list in Tom’s book for me was to a “revision” at Royal St George’s.  I couldn’t find any reference in the timeline to Mackenzie having been there.  Anyone know any more about this?

[Adam Lawrence]

Coincidentally I’ve just finished reading Tom’s (and others’) excellent book on Mackenzie and have been looking at the Mackenzie timeline as well.


One course mentioned on the latter that I haven’t seen on any other lists - or, indeed, heard anything about - is Dore & Totley, near Sheffield.  The timeline appears to suggest it was an original design from 1914.


Does anyone know anything about the course?  I can only find a few passing references on here. Intriguingly, the club’s website (which doesn’t mention Mackenzie at all as far as i can see) says that there are 23 holes, with the “original 18 hole course” played in the winter and 5 new holes used in the summer. The new holes were opened in 2005 when the rest of the holes were also redesigned.  Is it too much to hope that there are at least 5 original Mackenzie holes left on the winter course?  Oh to be able to go and have a look this weekend (or indeed any weekend soon!).

Mackenzie visited Dore on 31 October 1913 and routed the golf course.

[Kevin Pallier]

An obvious omission from Kevin’s and Dai’s lists is Bury, a very good and original Dr Mac course near Manchester. Gordon Irvine has recently been appointed with a view to restoring it to its original moorland character.

Duncan


Great pickup, whilst it had 18 holes in the early 1900's - Bury club moved to a completely new location with a new AM design. I will add it to the list of OD's and will place it in the OP.

[Kevin Pallier]

How much is/was original AMaC and how much is a re-model or tweaks by him at some stage is debatable but to places he worked in GB&I you could probably add -

Western-Super-Mare
Broadway
Malvern (The Worcestershire)
Walsall
Stanmore
Halifax
Nelson
South Moor
Crosslands Heath
Blairgowrie
Grange-over-Sands
West Herts
Bingley St Ives
Headingly
Harrogate
Pollok
Seaton Carew
Muskerry
Rhayader (NLE)

Thomas


Thanks for your considered input - as you say the definition of an OD v a redesign is important. I feel that if there is an existing routing and the large majority that's reused it's more of a redesign.


As per your list of courses


Western-Super-Mare: didn’t Dunn do the original course and AM redesign some holes?
Broadway: I couldn’t find evidence per Neil Crafter’s chronology?
Malvern [The Worcestershire]: noted - the club moved to a new location with an AM design [will update]
Walsall: as per above
Stanmore: wasn’t this a redesign by AM?
Halifax: wasn’t this a redesign by AM?
Nelson: didn’t it have an original 9 by Lowe and AM added a further 9?
South Moor: didn’t Fernie do the original course and AM do a redesign?
Crosslands Heath: I couldn’t find evidence per Neil Crafter’s chronology?
Blairgowrie: didn’t Mackenzie extend the original 9 holes to 18?
Grange-over-Sands:  according to Neil Crafter’s chronology there’s some evidence but it’s not definitive?
West Herts: didn’t Morris do the original course and AM do a redesign?
Bingley St Ives:  as per others here - I believe this is a CA Mackenzie design
Headingly:  noted - the club moved to a new location with an AM design [will update]
Harrogate: as per Neil Crafter’s chronology wasn’t AM involvement more of a redesign?
Pollok: didn’t someone else do the original course and AM do a redesign?
Seaton Carew = didn’t McCuaig do the original course and AM do a redesign?
Muskerry = didn’t McNamara do the original 9 and AM extend it to 18?
Rhayader (NLE) = noted – 1908 to 1968

[Kevin Pallier]

Kevin

In terms of your list, you want to add Troon Portland and Duff house Royal to the ones for Scotland. In both instances there was a course there already but MacKenzie did a totally new routing/design including new tees/greens. He also did a 18 hole course at Strichen in Aberdeenshire but that is NLE. From memory everything else he did in Scotland was alterations to existing courses.

Niall

Niall


Thanks for your input. Can you please elaborate on your comments. I'm keen to find out more about AM's input


Troon Portland: as far as I am aware Fernie designed the original layout in the 1890s. AM was brought in in the early 1920s for a redesign?

Duff House Royal: as far as I am aware Simpson designed the original layout in 1910. AM was brought in in the early 1920s for a redesign?

[James Reader]

Mackenzie is supposed to have just reworked two holes at Halifax - the 2nd and the 10th. 

[Tom_Doak]

The most surprising reference in the course list in Tom’s book for me was to a “revision” at Royal St George’s.  I couldn’t find any reference in the timeline to Mackenzie having been there.  Anyone know any more about this?

Ron Whitten has always had MacKenzie listed as having been involved at Sandwich at some point, but I don't know what his source was.  All of the club's records were lost in a clubhouse fire long ago, so they don't have anything about what he did.  To my eye, the present ninth green looks like a MacKenzie green, but I'm dangerous like that with my speculations.


Interestingly, MacKenzie mentioned Sandwich in The Spirit of St. Andrews, as part of discussing all of the best UK courses, but he only mentioned it briefly and did not speak of being involved there, so it's unlikely he did very much.

[Sean_A]

Sutton Coldfield is not an original Dr Mac design. Even some of the work he did do has been erased.

Happy Hockey

[Neil_Crafter]

Tom
Mackenzie definitely claimed to have worked at Sandwich in fact he claimed to have redesigned it.
    Apart from the listing of the course in his 1929 brochure, one other piece of evidence linking Dr MacKenzie with Sandwich comes also from his own writings, this time from “The Spirit of St. Andrews” on page 123:
“We can also eliminate blind greens, blind bunkers, and blind approaches. The greater the experience I have of designing golf courses, the more certain I am that blindness of all kinds should be avoided. The only form of blindness that should be permitted is the full shot up to a green whose position is accurately located by surrounding sand-hills. Even in a hole of this kind, it is not the blindness that is interesting, but the visibility of the surrounding sandhills. At Royal St. George’s in Sandwich, which we redesigned, it was not the blindness of the green, but the grandeur and impressiveness of the huge sand dune, that made the “Maiden” such a great hole.”
Neil
 

[Neil_Crafter]

My MacKenzie list, which is now a draft manuscript, has not separated new courses from redesigns easily, but its something I should do. I reckon at least two thirds of the courses MacKenzie was associated with in his career were redesigns and a third new.


Grange-over-Sands was a new 18 hole course by him, plenty of contemporary evidence for this, as was Crosland Heath. As was Rhayader in Wales but that is a NLE. Broadway was a small remodelling job.


Garforth was the redesign of an incomplete new course, so technically not a new course. And I have found one or two previously unknown courses by him, including Otterburn Hall which was a new course from 1925-27.

[Neil_Crafter]

And as Adam and a few others have suggested, Bingley St Ives was not designed by Alister.

[Kevin Pallier]

My MacKenzie list, which is now a draft manuscript, has not separated new courses from redesigns easily, but its something I should do. I reckon at least two thirds of the courses MacKenzie was associated with in his career were redesigns and a third new.


Grange-over-Sands was a new 18 hole course by him, plenty of contemporary evidence for this, as was Crosland Heath. As was Rhayader in Wales but that is a NLE. Broadway was a small remodelling job.


Garforth was the redesign of an incomplete new course, so technically not a new course. And I have found one or two previously unknown courses by him, including Otterburn Hall which was a new course from 1925-27.

Neil


Thanks for posting - I knew you were the expert regarding same.


There wasn't anything on Crosland Heath re: your 20th Chronology  back in 2018. I look forward to seeing your revision.


I will update to OP based on your post + some other courses that are NLE eg: Bayside, Wheatley Park etc

[Jeff Schley]

My MacKenzie list, which is now a draft manuscript, has not separated new courses from redesigns easily, but its something I should do. I reckon at least two thirds of the courses MacKenzie was associated with in his career were redesigns and a third new.


Grange-over-Sands was a new 18 hole course by him, plenty of contemporary evidence for this, as was Crosland Heath. As was Rhayader in Wales but that is a NLE. Broadway was a small remodelling job.


Garforth was the redesign of an incomplete new course, so technically not a new course. And I have found one or two previously unknown courses by him, including Otterburn Hall which was a new course from 1925-27.

Thanks Neil for weighing in.  Question as there was quite a bit of the good doctor doing redesigns, do you (or others) have any general observations as to why so many courses needed to be redesigned back in this era? We’re the courses back in that era done by a local with limited knowledge as GCA was in it’s infancy with a profession yet to be fully developed perhaps? 


Perhaps it was like any of us trying to do electrical work, we maybe able to get a light to work after our wiring job. But it would be very dangerous and maybe start a fire and need a professional to redo it at the soonest?

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Shane,


Off the top of my head, all of MacKenzie’s work in Ireland was redesign (Cork, Lahinch), NLE (Malone) or has changed beyond recognition (Galway).


Again, others might know more.

Ally,


Mackenzie also did some redesign of Limerick (I've no idea what was done here) and Muskerry (extension from 9 to 18). He might have also done some work at Balmoral and Knock in Belfast.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Niall Carlton,


You mentioned earlier in this thread that you had a lot of detail on the design/build history of Hazlehead. I would love to see that. It was my home club as a young fella and I have nothing of the MacKenzie work that was changed.

[Thomas Dai]

Some good stuff here. Nice to get some more clarity. Odd how some clubs just don't know or don't appreciate their background.
atb

[Duncan Cheslett]

An original MacKenzie design missing from the lists here and also not a member club of the MacKenzie Society is Marsden, a humble 9 hole course on the moors near Huddersfield.


I doubt that anyone visiting Marsden would suspect Dr Mac’s involvement if they didn’t already know.


https://www.marsdengolfclub.co.uk/

[Duncan Cheslett]

And another one;


Saddleworth GC, another moorland course in Yorkshire (although it is now officially in Greater Manchester!)


MacKenzie designed a second nine to extend the original course to eighteen holes.




https://www.saddleworthgolfclub.co.uk/club/history/

[Neil_Crafter]

My MacKenzie list, which is now a draft manuscript, has not separated new courses from redesigns easily, but its something I should do. I reckon at least two thirds of the courses MacKenzie was associated with in his career were redesigns and a third new.


Grange-over-Sands was a new 18 hole course by him, plenty of contemporary evidence for this, as was Crosland Heath. As was Rhayader in Wales but that is a NLE. Broadway was a small remodelling job.


Garforth was the redesign of an incomplete new course, so technically not a new course. And I have found one or two previously unknown courses by him, including Otterburn Hall which was a new course from 1925-27.

Neil


Thanks for posting - I knew you were the expert regarding same.


There wasn't anything on Crosland Heath re: your 20th Chronology  back in 2018. I look forward to seeing your revision.


I will update to OP based on your post + some other courses that are NLE eg: Bayside, Wheatley Park etc

Kevin
Just because a course is not mentioned in the Chronology does not mean MacKenzie didn't design it or redesign it, it just means we don't have any recorded sightings of him we can give a good date too. Lots of courses not mentioned in the Chronology but are in my book manuscript that is pretty much complete now. And I'm trying to figure out how to get it published - will be a series of volumes by geographical location.
Cheers Neil

[David Davis]

Tough to pick from the small number of Mackenzie courses I have played and call any of them them "Worst" courses. I might need to get out more.


Off the top of my head this is what I've been fortunate enough to play:


Cypress Point
Royal Melbourne (East & West)
Augusta National
Crystal Downs
New South Wales
Pasatiempo
Valley Club of Montecito
Alwoodley
Meadow Club
Jockey Club


With hopes to pick off Reddish Vale and Cavendish later this year.


Best 3:


Cypress, Royal Melbourne, ANGC


Worst Best 3:


Jockey Club
Meadow Club
Alwoodley


...and I'd emphasize by no means an insult to those 3 as I had to think carefully about it.
 

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