GolfClubAtlas.com > Golf Course Architecture

Are There Two Kinds of "Firm" ?

(1/7) > >>

Tom_Doak:
Watching the Tour event at Memorial Park last month, I was intrigued by the firmness of the greens.  The world's best players were able to hold their iron shots on the green from the fairway, but I hardly ever saw a ball spin back on an approach shot.


Most people attributed that to the greens being new, but I was also privy to the Tour's daily testing of the firmness of the greens.  Early in the week they were nowhere near as firm as a typical Tour event, and though they did firm them up some by Sunday, they still never got to the Tour average for firmness.  So why could the players not spin the ball back on the greens?


It got me thinking that firmness is also about (a) the moisture content in the greens, and (b) the amount of roots and thatch that are there for the ball to grab onto, and allow it to spin back.  Memorial Park did not have either one of those things to help the players out; most mature courses have one or both.


I'm curious what the greenkeepers here have to say on the topic.  To me, it suggests that even with all the measurement the Tours do on greens now, there are elements they're missing that may have a major effect on scoring.

JESII:
It's an interesting question. I've often felt there were at least two types of firm as well. I didn't relate it to roots and thatch, maybe because I don't play nearly as many new courses as you, but that may be the answer. Curious to hear what the professionals say.


I've always felt the work Scott Anderson does at Huntingdon Valley is best appreciated after it rains. He's gotten plenty of praise for the lean program he's espoused for so many years but from a playability perspective, I've never seen a non-links course get back to firm quicker than HVCC.


This means, in the Mid-Atlantic area, if we get a week or more of dry weather, any course that claims to be a firm and fast course (and there are many of them now) can get the ball to bounce some. HVCC would measure firmness by the height of a bounce when you hit a wedge; does it bounce over the flagstick, or not?  My appreciation comes from once it rains, how long does it take that course to get back to firm?  HVCC gets there in a day or two which means you get many, many more playing days with truly firm and fast conditions.

Tom Bacsanyi:
Just watching pro golf on ultradwarf bermuda vs. bent or poa, it seems that the UD consistently plays firmer. It is much rarer to see balls backing up on UD than cool season. East Lake is an example of more mature UD greens that play consistently firm.


Even at Winged Foot where they were literally watering dry areas with water bottles and their VMC was down very close to zero, balls would catch little softer spots here and there.

Pete_Pittock:
would a small tined aerated green be inherently firmer than a large tined aerated green?

David Ober:
The overwhelming majority of golfers have rarely, if ever, played greens that are "tough Tour stop" firm. It's amazing what that can do to scoring. If you're on your game and are compressing/spinning the ball sufficiently, you can navigate them reasonably well. But if you're skanking it around, you're in for a LONNNNG day when greens are super firm -- especially if you are approaching them from poor angles or if you miss in the wrong spots.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page