[JLahrman]

If it were at Prestwick we would be celebrating it.

[Kalen Braley]

This hole reminds me of those competitive cooking shows from time to time when the Judge is like "It tastes damn good, but visually very unappetizing."

But perhaps that is for another thread: Would you rather play a hole with little strategy that is visually appealing, or an ugly one with interesting playing characteristics?  To me TOC #17 seems to be the poster child for the latter...

[Michael Herrmann]

As God is my witness I never would have imagined there ever being a 4 page thread on GCA concerning the club I've been playing since my dad joined in 1983 when I was 6 years old...I guess anything is possible.


I'm going to reserve my own judgment on the hole until I lay eyes on it personally.  I haven't been to the course since mid-November (a new baby and very active older daughters tends to limit time at the course!)


Jason, one item I've heard from other friends at our club - the shaping of the ground and natural tilt of the land within the water feature itself has rendered it such that the "running water", so to speak, will never actually be visible from either the left or right hand tee box.  Is that correct?  To me that would appear to be a big miss in terms of what I would have imagined to be the desired optics from the tee.


I will say that I like the look beyond the green, with the elimination of the evergreens being a big plus.


What I don't understand, although this is not at all surprising given the history of projects at the course, is that what we voted on was very different from what is drawn up in the master plan that the Hurzdan's developed for us just 4 years ago.  It's not like we are operating with a 15-20 year old master plan.  Certainly we're not under any obligation to follow every recommendation from that plan.  But it just goes to show that when you don't have consistency in board direction in terms of course changes, and the folks running future planning are wildly underqualified, weird things are bound to happen. 


Hope to be able to see this live within the next month or so and who knows, my opinion may change dramatically as well!  One thing you won't find me complaining about is the job our super and staff have done the last few years in keeping the course in incredible condition for the amount of play we get annually.

[Jason Thurman]

Joel, that's funny. I actually thought after the bounce on Sunday "You know, we could've just embedded a bunch of railroad ties in the ground and probably saved a lot of cash and gotten similar playing characteristics." Consider them through the green and space them just a little so you get some really funky lies between them... I'm gonna stop before I totally sell myself on this idea.


Kalen, that's a good point. 11 has always been a nerve-racking little par 3. There's a lot of room right to bail out, but the bailout is an awful place to be. Green running away, shallow from that angle, with the water lurking for anything caught a little thin. It's the kind of penal design I like - it's a manageable shot but with lots of tension, and there's room to play the hole safely but it almost surely comes at the expense of a par, and the elements come together to make for a short par 3 with "options" in the sense of "firing right at the flag is often not the play, and you need to be judicious about your skills when you decide the line you'll take." If it were a Mike Strantz hole at Tot Hill Farm, for example, and if the water feature were instead a dramatic and artful rock outcrop, I'd think it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen.


Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly with Michael and cannot say enough good things about our superintendent. And beyond that, the whole staff of the club from the cart barn to food service to the pro shop. I love the place and look forward to every visit, even if I'd change a detail here and there.

[JLahrman]

Jason, well I can't say I like the look of it. But the opportunity to maybe get a crazy bounce out of it certainly adds a bit of fun to it.


Fun Cincinnati-related story, back in my senior year of HS we were getting ready for the sectional tournament at Glenview. We were among the favorites, all the guys on our team were playing pretty well, and we all played Glenview pretty well. I told the team the night before that I thought we would win the tournament and I didn't think it would be particularly close.


So we go out the next day and it's an incredibly windy day. To back up my smack talk I start out by double-bogeying my first hole (#10 on the south course) with a helpful 3-putt from 15 feet. The next hole is that downhill par-3 over water. I think I only had to hit maybe a 9-iron, but I hit a high pull that got up into the wind, which blew it even further left. It went way left over the trees where the cart path runs down to the green. I'm already going to my bag to reload when the ball disappears behind the tree line and (apparently) hits the cart path in some sort of crazy manner that sent it 20 feet into the air and directly backwards towards the tee. It splashed into the water. I went down to the drop area, played about a 40 yard pitch up to 4 feet, and made the putt for bogey. Then I birdied the next hole, went on to shoot 79 for co-medalist honors (yes it was a windy day), and the mighty Loveland Tigers won by 20 shots.


My shot didn't really get a quirky bounce due to a GCA feature, but the point of the story (apart from bragging that I actually won co-medalist honors in a tournament once) is that nearly 30 years later I still remember that quirky bounce - the horror when I saw my ball heading off to a place where I didn't even know I could hit it, surprise when the ball bounced way up in the air, shock when I realized it was coming back at me, laughter along with everybody else in my group at how ridiculous the shot was, and relief after I walked off the green with only a bogey. I really think my round would have turned out different if I'd had to retee and wound up with a 5 or 6.


So have fun with your new monstrosity, and next time I come through Cincinnati I'll drop you a line and hope to come play it myself!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

@ Jason :  A WaterFall hole  at  the Ace Club. How does it compare?

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