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Terry Lavin

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2020, 07:52:19 PM »
Fire the Board. Hire KemperLesnik and stop the desecration.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

mike_beene

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2020, 12:54:34 AM »
Bride of Chucky

Matt_Cohn

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2020, 12:53:54 PM »
Jason


Is the waterfall going to be penal or strategic in nature ?


Niall
PondKraft Bradshaws Belgian Boy Water Feature - Stone: Amazon.co.uk: Garden  & Outdoors
neither
I believe this would be considered, uh, penal.

Jason Thurman

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #53 on: November 02, 2020, 11:35:08 AM »

2. It's an artifical waterfall and I heard the words "signature hole" a dozen times in five minutes two nights ago.


GCA is kind of like Instagram in that it spotlights the highlights that others experience. We all know that real life isn't always as glamorous as it looks in photos posted online. Can anyone empathize with a member of a club that isn't joining the minimalist movement? If I'm being honest, it really should add some excitement to the hole.


Years ago I hosted the editor of a state ranking publication at my home club.  Gentle Creek is a course that I think would receive generous approval here even though it was motivated to sell homes.  It has bold bunkering, wildly undulating greens, width, scant trees, and considerable elasticity while being easy to walk (5.4 miles, relatively flat).  Maintenance is above average and the course is a favorite among tournament officials ranging from junior level sponsors, the Texas Golf Association, the USGA and the Northern Texas PGA (much to the chagrin of our members).


Talking about the course afterwards, this gentleman said he enjoyed the course very much, but the only hole of note that made a memorable impression was the par 3 #9.  It sits on a rock ledge some 15' above a pond on its left half, with water cascading from between the rocks at several places.  He thought that it was pretty neat and the hole has appeared in the "most beautiful" category in the annual rankings.


Yes, it is permissible even for a committed minimalist to enjoy water features when they are well done in a proper environment.  That may not be where I'd put my own money, but I wouldn't want to be a member of a club where it is one way or the highway.


As I'm talking myself into this work, I have to admit that it will likely have the intended effect of offering a moment of noteworthy beauty to the average member and guest. It also means that the old fountain in the pond will be retired - compared to the waterfall, I find the fountain unattractive and also more conspicuously unnatural.


I also keep wrestling with defining the things I want from my home course. One of the things I like about my home course is that it asks for an array of shots that "travel well." Because of that, I forgive it for some architectural shortcomings. As an example, its heavily-treed corridors and lack of width don't do it a lot of architectural favors. But playing it regularly, I appreciate that I've become a more accurate and smarter driver of the ball thanks to the importance placed on that part of the game at the club I play most often.


11 is just a downhill 130ish yard par 3 - not scary on the scorecard. In person, it asks for a very accurate but manageable swing - a pull risks getting wet, a push leaves a very difficult up-and-down. Nobody wants to make 4 on the shortest hole on the course, but a 3 is hard to come by without hitting the green, and hitting it requires bringing the risk of water left into play.


That requirement - that once a round, you will likely need to hit a very accurate shot to keep pace with an opponent - pays dividends any time I face a wedge shot that requires high-stakes directional accuracy. It's a shot I know I can pull off, because I get a lot of reps at it at home. I just need to conjure it in the moment.


So now we're upping the stakes, such that now the hole will also require solid contact and distance control or risk bringing more water short into play. I don't know if I'll think it's a "better hole" a year from now, but I suspect it'll put a little more hair on the chest of most of our members when we face high-stakes wedge shots. We're gonna face one at least once a round, and as we log a few successful plays, it might just help us become more poised as players.


That's what I'm trying to tell myself anyways. Like, Victoria National members probably don't fear 17 at Sawgrass quite as much as the rest of us.
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #54 on: November 02, 2020, 11:56:20 AM »
As a member of Victoria National for 20 years I have learned to let happiness come to me. Don't fight idea of a touch of beauty entering a round of golf.

Jason Thurman

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2020, 01:33:33 PM »
Snapped a pic of the hole from the tee yesterday. Here's the "before" shot, with work slated to begin within a month or so. That floating bunker short of the green will be largely replaced by the waterfall feature.







"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

David Ober

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2020, 01:45:55 PM »
That hole does not need a waterfall.


That is all. ;D

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2020, 01:52:59 PM »
I love the tree. I can see it keeping some really bad shots out of the water leading to some amazing pars.

David Ober

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2020, 02:02:54 PM »
I love the tree. I can see it keeping some really bad shots out of the water leading to some amazing pars.


I like it also. The hole looks easy for anyone who likes to move the ball right-to-left. Those whose eye sees the ball moving left-to-right, though, will have more trouble, due to the tree. Of course, with a wedge, it's tough to put much fade movement on the ball regardless, but what we see in our mind's eye prior to a shot can greatly influence the outcome.

JLahrman

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #59 on: November 09, 2020, 02:32:56 PM »
Additionally, in 20 years the tree will encroach so much that you won't even be able to see the waterfall.

Jason Thurman

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2020, 03:14:34 PM »
It's funny how you hardly notice the tree at all when you're on the tee, even though it really dominates the view. The shot plays quite a bit downhill, so you probably only need to get a ball about 15 feet in the air or so to clear the canopy. I can't actually recall ever seeing it hit with a tee shot on 11. It probably comes into play more often on 10, where an errant tee shot can mean making a tough decision about whether to lay up short of the water and leave >125 yards for the third shot (on a mid-length par 4), or whether to try to cross the water to leave a much shorter up-and-down. From a lot of spots, the clearest line across the water involves playing out toward 11. The photo above shows the field of not-too-punishing rough that awaits a player who successfully gets past the tree, leaving a pitch of between 20 and 50 yards to set up a chance at par.


The hole also has an alternate teeing ground to the right, from which the tree no longer blocks the view of any portion of the green. And my understanding is that we'll be adding a box further back behind that one that will stretch the tips to around 160 yards on this hole.
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Jason Thurman

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2021, 12:20:41 PM »
Construction updates:





View from 10 fairway. Do I lose my GCA membership if I admit that I think I like the rock wall?
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

V. Kmetz

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2021, 01:31:19 PM »
Construction updates:

View from 10 fairway. Do I lose my GCA membership if I admit that I think I like the rock wall?



No, as long as you show us 5 examples of a rock wall you do not like... on any course.
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Jeff Schley

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2021, 12:25:57 AM »
Austin cc has rock walls everywhere.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Mark Mammel

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2021, 12:28:57 AM »
Did anyone suggest that the waterfall project could be enhanced by the inclusion of a castle with a moat and a drawbridge and of course a windmill nearby? Some garden gnomes might look nice as well!
atb
Don't forget the flower gardens.
So much golf to play, so little time....

Mark

Lou_Duran

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2021, 11:18:32 AM »
I love the tree. I can see it keeping some really bad shots out of the water leading to some amazing pars.


I like it also. The hole looks easy for anyone who likes to move the ball right-to-left. Those whose eye sees the ball moving left-to-right, though, will have more trouble, due to the tree. Of course, with a wedge, it's tough to put much fade movement on the ball regardless, but what we see in our mind's eye prior to a shot can greatly influence the outcome.


Put the tree on the right side and it would give me pause.  Pete Dye did this at Oak Tree on the first three par 3s, tree (s) right, water left, and with the usual quartering winds, it really bothered me.  On a windy site, hitting high shots over trees to create enough room is uncomfortably beyond my abilities.

Paul Jones

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2021, 11:35:24 AM »
What is the price tag to add this waterfall? 
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Lou_Duran

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #67 on: March 08, 2021, 11:38:59 AM »
As a member of Victoria National for 20 years I have learned to let happiness come to me. Don't fight idea of a touch of beauty entering a round of golf.


Very profound JK.  I haven't studied the subject for decades, but it seems that people are wired for sadness with an occasional fleeting period of contentment.  Context is key.  Thank God for the beauty found on every course.  It keeps many of us in a game that much too often induces frustration and despair.

Morgan Clawson

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2021, 09:33:32 PM »
The removal of the pines behind the green is a nice win.

Steve Lang

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #69 on: March 08, 2021, 11:31:08 PM »
 8)  Jason,


Did the old trap ever get washed out during rainfall events? 


How much area is tributary or will drain down the new drainage channel's path? 


You say waterfall but from the pictures it looks more like a like a curving rocky slope or path coming down to the lake, versus a pool and water weir I'd associate with a "waterfall".  Reminds me of some wastewater outfalls used to oxygenate flow or even some fish ladders I've seen...


Looks like the perimeter stone blocks will make it easy to fish for balls  ;D


Just wondering .
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Jason Thurman

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #70 on: March 09, 2021, 12:43:49 PM »
Paul, I think the cost comes to around $50-75k, if I remember correctly. The expense was greatly reduced by completing the work in tandem with a bigger project to dredge the pond, which needed to happen anyways. And truthfully, rarely does work happen at our club without a member or two offering to provide services at a discount. It's literally a part of our culture that has been in place since our founding some 60 years ago by four golfers who were tired of playing five-hour public rounds but didn't want to shell out the exorbitant initiation fees and dues at the full-service private country clubs around town. They founded a golf club, Bill Diddel designed it (his last course I think?), and founding members grabbed shovels and rakes or heavier machinery if they knew how to operate it (and also their teenage children!) and helped with shaping. We've had a membership full of guys who happily jump to roll up their sleeves ever since.


Steve, the area around the back of the green has always been a swampy spot where a small drainage channel leads on the way to the pond. But the area around the bunker was really sort of higher ground. It's not much of a natural spot to put a stream. A pump from the pond will pull water up to the top of the feature for it to trickle down. That pump isn't new - it previously fed a fountain that kept the pond from getting stagnant in summer. It's really just being repurposed for this feature.


With the pond needing dredging and the previous bank flowing down into the water pretty smoothly, I suspect it's actually going to be harder to fish for balls over that steep rocky ledge now!
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2021, 10:41:42 AM »
Guys, I'm rethinking my reaction to this water feature.


It's now in play. Some finish work remains to be completed, but I've played the hole three times with the waterfall in place now, and I'm learning some nuances of how it affects play. Consider yesterday's 3-ball game...


The hole was playing 120 yards downhill to a front pin. Wind hurting off the left. My buddy, an annual club championship contender, hit a solid wedge that ballooned a touch in the wind. A sense of drama hangs in the air... before we see his ball land safely just over the water, a yard or so short of the green. He remarks "Well, I was definitely more nervous than I would've been last fall." So... win?


I'm up next. And I make my worst swing of the day and catch it heavy. I'm begging for the wind to keep it short of the water, but I know it's doomed. The ball comes down right in the middle of the new feature...


... bounces off a rock and shoots about 60 feet in the air...


... and lands safely on the front middle of the green. Then starts tracking toward the hole. I'm now asking it to go in! (It doesn't). I end up missing the 10 footer for what would've been an awfully memorable birdie. But as pars on 120 yard holes go... well, that one's pretty memorable.


Our third player hits a similar shot to mine. He also ricochets off a rock, but his ball comes backwards even short of the ground under repair. He nearly gets up-and-down on his way to a not-so-bad bogey.


So... I mean, compared to the old bunker, the waterfall is no more unsightly. It makes a pleasant sound. And it's MUCH more exciting! It's mostly rocky and shallow, and I hadn't considered the possibility that a ball hit into the hazard might only actually stay in the hazard some of the time.


You want quirk? Rub of the green? Scoring volatility? You might just need a rocky water feature.





"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Tim Gavrich

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2021, 12:14:45 PM »
It's a complete and utter abomination. I love it. "The Room" of golf hole renovations.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Dan Delaney 🐮

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #73 on: April 19, 2021, 07:50:31 PM »

J - nice par.  ;D

Can we talk about the bench?


Is it a memorial?
An alignment aid?
An invitation to rest comfortably in the kill zone on the other hole?

Jason Thurman

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #74 on: April 19, 2021, 10:30:19 PM »
Dan, great question!


If you're referencing what I think you're referencing back behind the green, it's actually a little wooden bridge that crosses a small stream that runs down the left of 10. And while we're talking about it, and talking about good breaks that involved hazards this weekend... remember that buddy of mine who teed off first on 11? Strong player, annual club championship contender, made the carry with no fortuitous bounces...


He hooked his tee shot on 10 Saturday. And anything in the stream or left of it is a goner. In the hazard.


Except Nick's ball. It ended up on the bridge. He was able to save par.


Study the architecture closely, friends. The frilly bunkers get all the hype, but until last weekend I had never paid nearly enough attention to the hardscapes near hazards and the different ways they can impact play.
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

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