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Tim_Weiman

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2020, 10:42:52 PM »

My club is installing a waterfall.


We voted on it Tuesday. In preparation for the vote, a brief presentation outlined the proposal. During that presentation, the thesis "We need a signature hole" was stated multiple times.


The waterfall will be installed on our shortest hole, a 130 yd downhill par 3 with a tiny green that currently butts up against a pond to the left and behind.


Pros:
1. The waterfall will replace a pretty stupid bunker that sits above-grade, 10 yards short of the green. The carry to clear won't be any longer, so weaker players will still have some chance of bouncing a ball onto the surface.


2. A fairway expansion on the preceding hole is slated to be part of the same project. That hole currently is a par 4 that requires carrying the pond on the approach. The expanded fairway will allow weaker players the chance to go around the pond to the right without a forced carry. The ol' "you can play the entire hole with a putter" thing.


3. Plans call for a stepping-stone walking path across the waterfall's basin, which will be a nice shortcut for walkers.


4. The feature will be visible from 5 or 6 holes, even though it won't be particularly large. So... value for the money.


5. The moving water will help minimize pond scum that tends to flare up in the summer.


Cons:
1. As one member pointed out during the presentation, the following hole has a blind tee shot and the group ahead rings a bell when they've cleared the fairway. Some of the older guys already have a hard time hearing the bell, and now they'll have to hear it over the sound of running water.


2. It's an artifical waterfall and I heard the words "signature hole" a dozen times in five minutes two nights ago.


GCA is kind of like Instagram in that it spotlights the highlights that others experience. We all know that real life isn't always as glamorous as it looks in photos posted online. Can anyone empathize with a member of a club that isn't joining the minimalist movement? If I'm being honest, it really should add some excitement to the hole.


Jason,


Don’t wait. Call Tommy Naccarato. He can help.
Tim Weiman

Mike Bodo

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"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Criss Titschinger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2020, 08:29:25 AM »
Had the timing been better, I would have offered to give you a deal on one of the waterfall features we were ripping out of Bel Air.


Do you think they would have gotten the point?   ???

I'm at the same club Thurman is. We're happy to take second-hand items at our club. The carpet in our very modest clubhouse we got second-hand from a more affluent club in town. I'll keep that in mind for whatever our next project ends up being.

Criss Titschinger

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2020, 08:34:58 AM »
PondKraft Bradshaws Belgian Boy Water Feature - Stone: Amazon.co.uk: Garden  & Outdoors

I now know what my parting gift to the club will be when I meet my inevitable demise. A statue like this must be placed at this waterfall, or the club cannot accept any accompanying gifts.

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2020, 09:03:07 AM »

My club is installing a waterfall.


We voted on it Tuesday. In preparation for the vote, a brief presentation outlined the proposal. During that presentation, the thesis "We need a signature hole" was stated multiple times.


The waterfall will be installed on our shortest hole, a 130 yd downhill par 3 with a tiny green that currently butts up against a pond to the left and behind.


Pros:
1. The waterfall will replace a pretty stupid bunker that sits above-grade, 10 yards short of the green. The carry to clear won't be any longer, so weaker players will still have some chance of bouncing a ball onto the surface.


2. A fairway expansion on the preceding hole is slated to be part of the same project. That hole currently is a par 4 that requires carrying the pond on the approach. The expanded fairway will allow weaker players the chance to go around the pond to the right without a forced carry. The ol' "you can play the entire hole with a putter" thing.


3. Plans call for a stepping-stone walking path across the waterfall's basin, which will be a nice shortcut for walkers.


4. The feature will be visible from 5 or 6 holes, even though it won't be particularly large. So... value for the money.


5. The moving water will help minimize pond scum that tends to flare up in the summer.


Cons:
1. As one member pointed out during the presentation, the following hole has a blind tee shot and the group ahead rings a bell when they've cleared the fairway. Some of the older guys already have a hard time hearing the bell, and now they'll have to hear it over the sound of running water.


2. It's an artifical waterfall and I heard the words "signature hole" a dozen times in five minutes two nights ago.


GCA is kind of like Instagram in that it spotlights the highlights that others experience. We all know that real life isn't always as glamorous as it looks in photos posted online. Can anyone empathize with a member of a club that isn't joining the minimalist movement? If I'm being honest, it really should add some excitement to the hole.


Jason, maybe relative impact will make you feel better. Our club installed a waterfall as part of putting in a reservoir to save on water costs. The waterfall is to the side of a tee so it is pretty innocuous. But the reservoir ruined the 18th hole which used to be a very good hole.


Ira

Niall C

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2020, 09:26:44 AM »
Jason


Is the waterfall going to be penal or strategic in nature ?


Niall

Niall C

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2020, 09:29:54 AM »
I laughed out loud at this post, then I got serious. The barns and hotel on the Old Course were most likely un-welcomed, but they have become a point of pride. Suggest you do the same. Consider it a Marilyn Monroe beauty mark :)


Dear President of All GCA's


Excuse me for being pedantic but a barn is generally used for agricultural purposes whereas the structures adjacent to TOC 17 was most definitely industrial in nature and therefore should properly be referred to as a shed.


Yours sincerely


Member of Fred Dibnah Society

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2020, 10:11:23 AM »
Had the timing been better, I would have offered to give you a deal on one of the waterfall features we were ripping out of Bel Air.


Do you think they would have gotten the point?   ???


I can hear that conversation now:


"We've found a gently used waterfall, well-maintained, for a great price. One of the best courses in LA is having it removed."


"Oh yeah? What is it, like, a Nicklaus course or something?"
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2020, 10:16:28 AM »
Jason


Is the waterfall going to be penal or strategic in nature ?


Niall


Definitely penal. But it's mostly replacing an already penal bunker, on an already penal hole. So really, I wouldn't call it much MORE penal.


Now, once the Titschinger Memorial Statue is added in 70 or 80 years, it'll be more penile. But if they get the anatomical scale correct, it won't be that much MORE...


Sorry Criss! You know sometimes I just can't help myself!


I'll be here all day people.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2020, 10:18:07 AM »
Jason


Is the waterfall going to be penal or strategic in nature ?


Niall
PondKraft Bradshaws Belgian Boy Water Feature - Stone: Amazon.co.uk: Garden  & Outdoors
neither
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

ward peyronnin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2020, 10:25:14 AM »
Jason
Positive: As Pete intimates you can point out the need to budget an additional comfort station for the senior members or at a minimum receptive landscape grouping and this could be a budget buster
Negative: Wedding photo opps will generate revenue to offset this potential overrun
Positive: You will have tittering flocks of nubile wedding parties drifting aimlessly through the course on their way to the photo opp
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2020, 10:43:38 AM »
I just realized we have flyover videos of the course posted on YouTube. Find the back 9 at this link. 10 and 11 are the two holes that will change with the work proposed, so they're the first two you'll see.


I also have a photo of the approach to 10 below, taken from the end of the fairway. The proposed work will include pulling the right edge of the pond in to create a strip of fairway, so that a forced carry is no longer required. It's unclear to me at this point how wide that strip of fairway will be - likely not very, but I do think a handful of slower-swing-speed players will appreciate it.


Note also that the video above is a year or two older than the photo below, and the approach to 10 has been improved quite a bit in my mind since the bunker left of the green was eliminated and the bunker front-right created. Our original design focused a lot on ease of maintenance, and the original greenside bunkers throughout were mostly sited far enough from the putting surfaces that a gang mower could pass through the rough between green and sand. As part of our master plan, many bunkers have been or will be resituated so that they're much closer to greens, and also so that they create more meaningful angles. The old bunker on 10 really made no sense. The bunkering changes on this hole have really improved the approach, I think.





Unrelated, but something I may never be able to type again: I've birdied 10 the last two times I've played it!
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2020, 10:49:17 AM »
PondKraft Bradshaws Belgian Boy Water Feature - Stone: Amazon.co.uk: Garden  & Outdoors




This might not be the best fountain if it's a Jewish club.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2020, 10:56:44 AM »
Jason
Positive: As Pete intimates you can point out the need to budget an additional comfort station for the senior members or at a minimum receptive landscape grouping and this could be a budget buster
Negative: Wedding photo opps will generate revenue to offset this potential overrun
Positive: You will have tittering flocks of nubile wedding parties drifting aimlessly through the course on their way to the photo opp


No weddings at our golf-only club, thankfully. Just picturing one is hilarious... imagine hosting a wedding in the starter's hut at Dismal White.


Ugh... referencing the first tee at Dismal White while talking to Ward brings back a memory of a pretty bad blunder. If Whitaker's putt had curled in, I might have given up golf. Pro tip: Don't stand too close to the ball when taking practice strokes, especially in a late-match situation.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Mark Kiely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2020, 11:52:17 AM »
Seems like you can barely see that bunker even from an elevated drone shot; Can you see it from the tee, and will the waterfall replacing it be visible from the tee or only once you get up around the green?
My golf course photo albums on Flickr: https://goo.gl/dWPF9z

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2020, 12:03:35 PM »
This thread got me thinking, even some of the best courses/holes in the world can benefit from improvements.  So I was thinking about CPC 16, and something like this would be awesome. Can someone get Jack or Faz on the horn, this needs to happen?
** (Yes I know my photoshop skills are shyte, so I didn't even bother trying to make it look right)  ;)


« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 12:05:25 PM by Kalen Braley »

jeffwarne

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2020, 12:10:12 PM »
This thread got me thinking, even some of the best courses/holes in the world can benefit from improvements.  So I was thinking about CPC 16, and something like this would be awesome. Can someone get Jack or Faz on the horn, this needs to happen?
** (Yes I know my photoshop skills are shyte, so I didn't even bother trying to make it look right)  ;)





At a place like Cypress Point you'd think they could get the waterfall to flow upward FROM the ocean, desalinize the water and use it for irrigation :)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2020, 12:15:08 PM »
It wouldn't be that hard Jeff with a wee pump pulling in some ocean water... and you wouldn't even have to desalinize if its in a self-contained rock feature and just flowed back where it came from!

P.S. The membership at CPC have gotta be wondering what it would take to get their course back to the top spot in the rankings and I think this would seal it! ;D

Mike Bodo

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2020, 12:44:18 PM »
The membership at CPC have gotta be wondering what it would take to get their course back to the top spot in the rankings and I think this would seal it! ;D
Right, because we all know how well having a man-made waterfall worked in putting Fazio's Wynn course in the Top 100. LOL! But I could see this benefiting Pebble.  ;D ;D


"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Lou_Duran

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2020, 05:10:47 PM »

2. It's an artifical waterfall and I heard the words "signature hole" a dozen times in five minutes two nights ago.


GCA is kind of like Instagram in that it spotlights the highlights that others experience. We all know that real life isn't always as glamorous as it looks in photos posted online. Can anyone empathize with a member of a club that isn't joining the minimalist movement? If I'm being honest, it really should add some excitement to the hole.


Years ago I hosted the editor of a state ranking publication at my home club.  Gentle Creek is a course that I think would receive generous approval here even though it was motivated to sell homes.  It has bold bunkering, wildly undulating greens, width, scant trees, and considerable elasticity while being easy to walk (5.4 miles, relatively flat).  Maintenance is above average and the course is a favorite among tournament officials ranging from junior level sponsors, the Texas Golf Association, the USGA and the Northern Texas PGA (much to the chagrin of our members).


Talking about the course afterwards, this gentleman said he enjoyed the course very much, but the only hole of note that made a memorable impression was the par 3 #9.  It sits on a rock ledge some 15' above a pond on its left half, with water cascading from between the rocks at several places.  He thought that it was pretty neat and the hole has appeared in the "most beautiful" category in the annual rankings.


Yes, it is permissible even for a committed minimalist to enjoy water features when they are well done in a proper environment.  That may not be where I'd put my own money, but I wouldn't want to be a member of a club where it is one way or the highway. 

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2020, 08:08:28 PM »


My club is installing a waterfall.

Why the Fark would NGLA do that?
Coming in August 2023
~Manakiki
~OSU Scarlet
~OSU Grey
~NCR South
~Springfield
~Columbus
~Lake Forest (OH)
~Sleepy Hollow (OH)

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2020, 08:50:41 PM »
Jason,


The FLW house at Falling Water waterfall is a good template to follow:


See the source image
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

John Crowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2020, 10:00:22 PM »
Jason
Positive: As Pete intimates you can point out the need to budget an additional comfort station for the senior members or at a minimum receptive landscape grouping and this could be a budget buster




Jason,
Ward’s strategy is spot on.
At my former club, “the opposition” added costly unrelated items to an excellent and reasonably priced restoration plan.
The resulting “package deal” proposal failed.
I resigned the club.

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2020, 10:30:39 PM »
Jason,

It's 2020 and it requires a new mind set to face the new normal.

Time to change.

All the best,
Bill

Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2020, 07:11:07 AM »
Jason:

Will the superintendent be able to have the water cascade in such a way as to create a checkerboard pattern?  That would be all world.[/size][size=78%] [/size]
Proud member of a Doak 3.

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