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Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« on: October 29, 2020, 02:59:25 PM »

My club is installing a waterfall.


We voted on it Tuesday. In preparation for the vote, a brief presentation outlined the proposal. During that presentation, the thesis "We need a signature hole" was stated multiple times.


The waterfall will be installed on our shortest hole, a 130 yd downhill par 3 with a tiny green that currently butts up against a pond to the left and behind.


Pros:
1. The waterfall will replace a pretty stupid bunker that sits above-grade, 10 yards short of the green. The carry to clear won't be any longer, so weaker players will still have some chance of bouncing a ball onto the surface.


2. A fairway expansion on the preceding hole is slated to be part of the same project. That hole currently is a par 4 that requires carrying the pond on the approach. The expanded fairway will allow weaker players the chance to go around the pond to the right without a forced carry. The ol' "you can play the entire hole with a putter" thing.


3. Plans call for a stepping-stone walking path across the waterfall's basin, which will be a nice shortcut for walkers.


4. The feature will be visible from 5 or 6 holes, even though it won't be particularly large. So... value for the money.


5. The moving water will help minimize pond scum that tends to flare up in the summer.


Cons:
1. As one member pointed out during the presentation, the following hole has a blind tee shot and the group ahead rings a bell when they've cleared the fairway. Some of the older guys already have a hard time hearing the bell, and now they'll have to hear it over the sound of running water.


2. It's an artifical waterfall and I heard the words "signature hole" a dozen times in five minutes two nights ago.


GCA is kind of like Instagram in that it spotlights the highlights that others experience. We all know that real life isn't always as glamorous as it looks in photos posted online. Can anyone empathize with a member of a club that isn't joining the minimalist movement? If I'm being honest, it really should add some excitement to the hole.
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2020, 03:15:50 PM »
Jason, does the board feel that the addition of an artificial waterfall will boost interest in membership at your club or does it go beyond that? I guess I'm not sure how a man made feature such as waterfall elevates a hole to "signature" status unless it introduces a hazard that didn't previously exist?
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2020, 03:16:41 PM »
Thoughts and prayers.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2020, 03:23:16 PM »
You had me at "pond scum"... ;D


The soft sounds of gurgling water are now in your future...;p-)


The only way this gets punted on is if you can convince them that it is somehow a health or safety hazard.


Country Club politics are just pointless. Suggest you be like "The Dude" (in the Big Lebowsk) and just abide, man....;-)

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2020, 03:24:27 PM »

CMP

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2020, 03:44:32 PM »
This is fantastic.


A friend of mine sat through a 4 hour table-pounding of a board meeting when they argued over the "should go to green dyed divot mix"


but this is even better.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2020, 03:54:04 PM »
Jason, does the board feel that the addition of an artificial waterfall will boost interest in membership at your club or does it go beyond that? I guess I'm not sure how a man made feature such as waterfall elevates a hole to "signature" status unless it introduces a hazard that didn't previously exist?


You know, one of the things I like about this project is that I really don't think it was motivated by anything more than a board member seeking a way to improve our course. Also confirmed at our annual meeting is that we again have reached membership capacity, and have reestablished waiting lists. In that light, given the timing, I don't see expectations that this increases membership or membership interest. Rather, I really think it stems from a desire to make our club a better place for members. And really, that's consistent with the actions of our board over the last few years. We've executed a series of relatively small but impactful projects that have improved the experience of being a club member, and a few of them have also managed to tangibly improve bottom-line revenue and likely contributed to our current full membership and solid financial standing.


While I don't totally agree with the solution presented, I commend the desire to improve our members' experience. I love our course. It's not an architectural masterpiece, but it has a ton of variety and a lot of really fun holes and a great playing culture. One of the course's biggest drawbacks, to me, is a lack of true standout holes. There's not a bad one in the bunch, but it's hard to pick out stars. I truly think the goal of this project is to help "fix" that problem.


Now, I probably wouldn't have chosen to highlight such a short and one-dimensional hole. I'd have looked to dramatize the impact of one of the two or three stronger holes on the course, and I would've looked to do that through added playing interest rather than added visual interest. And we also have a master plan in place that I also might have looked to pull a project forward from, rather than doing something offscript. But in defense of NOT going in that direction, the most exciting components of our master plan are also MUCH more expensive than adding a water feature, which is something we'll be able to do in-house with existing funds while marrying the work with a couple other projects to capture some cost efficiency (the pond needs some maintenance anyways in addition to hopefully pulling off the aforementioned fairway expansion).
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2020, 04:35:28 PM »
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 12.2. Have 24 & 21 year old girls and wife of 27 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2020, 04:37:32 PM »
Maybe revisit on November 4th?
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2020, 04:53:09 PM »
Jason, great to hear your club is not only at full membership, but has a waiting list to boot! It's good to be in the golf industry again.  ;D Like you, I was a member at a club that had 18 good - very good holes, but nothing that stood out as a masterpiece or could be considered a "signature hole". We were doing beautification projects until our clubhouse burned down a couple of years ago, but those were predominately off the course. If you've got the money to put in and maintain a waterfall and by doing so make the course more visually appealing and enjoyable to the membership, then why not? That said, I don't believe that addition necessarily makes a very good or even great hole a signature hole. What it tells me is that the new water feature will be used to promote the club in all its printed materials and digital marketing endeavors.
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2020, 04:53:51 PM »
Did anyone suggest that the waterfall project could be enhanced by the inclusion of a castle with a moat and a drawbridge and of course a windmill nearby? Some garden gnomes might look nice as well!
atb


Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2020, 04:54:26 PM »
Did anyone suggest that the waterfall project could be enhanced by the inclusion of a castle with a moat and a drawbridge and of course a windmill nearby? Some garden gnomes might look nice as well!
atb
;D ;D ;D  That was good!
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Mark Kiely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2020, 05:03:55 PM »
Maybe revisit on November 4th?


Because they might be able to hire a noted golf course waterfall designer who will be looking for a new job?
My golf course photo albums on Flickr: https://goo.gl/dWPF9z

Ben Malach

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2020, 05:35:34 PM »
Nice, just think 15 years down the road. Your club will pay another guy to have the pond reduced or removed in an attempt to restore the course to it's original intent.
@benmalach on Instagram and Twitter

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2020, 06:20:36 PM »

But the waterfall really tied the course together, man!

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2020, 08:21:17 PM »
is the waterfall is a gimmick by architects to distract golfers from the problem at hand. I like water falls if they fit the surroundings
and have some honesty to them. But falling water may generate tinkles.

David Ober

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2020, 08:27:33 PM »
<hugs>


:-)

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2020, 08:31:34 PM »
 ;D


Jason, my condolences!


Nothing worse than the need to identify a "signature hole" . Ouch. Can't help but cringe when hearing it  :P


Don't know how you can stem the tide once it gets flowing in this direction. Particularly in a club with a golf committee. God bless you and hope that  this too shall pass!

Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2020, 09:17:49 PM »
After an eight-digit restoration, Boothbay Harbor Country Club has emerged as one of the finest hypermodern courses I have ever seen. They pushed the landscaping, flora, masonry and waterworks to the edge of the uncanny valley, and just like those 6% artificial human faces, the result is soothing and wondrous. The new fifteenth hole features a stream that falls twenty-five feet from green to tee, and when I saw it for the first time I really thought that I could have been hiking in the White Mountains, and I was kind of wishing that they had gone for the waterfall. Nothing at all wrong with a well-designed water feature.
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2020, 09:34:11 PM »
Pete Dye has a waterfall coming right out of I believe the 10th green at The Pete Dye Golf Club!  If it is good enough for him don't worry about it ;D

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2020, 09:41:52 PM »
PondKraft Bradshaws Belgian Boy Water Feature - Stone: Amazon.co.uk: Garden  & Outdoors

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2020, 09:42:28 PM »
Had the timing been better, I would have offered to give you a deal on one of the waterfall features we were ripping out of Bel Air.


Do you think they would have gotten the point?   ???

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2020, 09:49:53 PM »
Correct me if Iím wrong, but isnít the difference between a stream and a waterfall simply a matter of elevation change? Yet no one seems to mind a creek that is rerouted to cut across a hole? Is gravity that offensive?

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2020, 10:20:28 PM »
I laughed out loud at this post, then I got serious. The barns and hotel on the Old Course were most likely un-welcomed, but they have become a point of pride. Suggest you do the same. Consider it a Marilyn Monroe beauty mark :)

ó Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Peter Pallotta

Re: Asking for emotional support during this difficult time
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2020, 10:28:56 PM »
PondKraft Bradshaws Belgian Boy Water Feature - Stone: Amazon.co.uk: Garden  & Outdoors
Dear god thatís an image right out of some nightmare, when the statueís eyes suddenly open and the head slowly turns to face you as the once beatific smile becomes a demonically malicious grin ó and in one thundering beat of your heart you know that your soul will soon be lost forever!
So I ask you: is that what any of us really wants on a golf course?

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