[Mike Hendren]

Is there more than one Mountain Ridge? Heck! Tegugea’s better in my book much less Holston Hills.  Surely Pat’s arms are getting weary from pulling those strings.


I must be a dolt as I will never understand The Ocean Course, Brandon Dunes and Peachtree being top 50, though all are excellent.


Surely Doak got Glens Falls on the list by sheer force of personality.


The biggest indictment of the list?  Even I have played 31 of them!


Bogues

[Rob Marshall]

I was shocked to see Glens Falls. Good for them. Nice to see a small town “local” club make the list.

[Matt MacIver]

Hot take: #2 stinks compared to new #4. At least #4 has elevation change and water hazards, and I don’t find the greens on #2 all that interesting. No (material) wind in PH. #2 greens, hard and fast, yes. I would play 4v2 probably 7/3 or maybe 6/4 but it’s not overweighted materially to #2 based on Majors. I get bummed out thinking the courses listed below #2 are worse than it and I’ll like them less. Give me OTC all week.

[Joel_Stewart]

Nothing against Pinehurst No. 4 but it's not a Top 100 golf course in the US.

Nice move by St. Louis CC. I was there last week and they've cleared out a lot of treed areas. Not sure how recently Joel was there but its getting better, though more could be removed.

I was there August 2019. St Louis is a really interesting course with some great features but the trees just overwhelm the architecture.  I felt claustrophobic at times.  They have such an old school membership its been a tough sell for removing trees.  I'd be happy if they just cut back the rough especially between the fairways and bunkers.  I talked with a member today and it seems they are doubling down on thick Kentucky bluegrass rough? 

[Jason Thurman]

Honestly, the list has a lot of courses I really like on it. I've played about 20 of these, and most of the ones I've played are in my top 25 or so personally.


My hottest take is that I'd flip the rankings of Prairie Dunes and Prairie Club (Dunes). I'd also flip Old Mac and Bandon Dunes. And I'd bump Trails higher.


The rest doesn't all exactly match my preferences but I have no feelings of outrage. It's nice to see Cherry Hills in the 100 spot.

[William_G]

Honestly, the list has a lot of courses I really like on it. I've played about 20 of these, and most of the ones I've played are in my top 25 or so personally.


My hottest take is that I'd flip the rankings of Prairie Dunes and Prairie Club (Dunes). I'd also flip Old Mac and Bandon Dunes. And I'd bump Trails higher.

Prairie Club, LOL



played 60 of those listed


love Trails!

[corey miller]

Love when we get a Macdonald course with irrigated high Kentucky Bluegrass rough.   


I do wonder of the 100 how many are presented in less than ideal states that are not appropriate for the architecture. 

[/size][size=78%] [/size]

[Jimmy Muratt]

I would certainly remove Prairie Club Dunes and replace with Dismal River Red.   Dismal Red is vastly underrated and I'm not sure why.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Let's face it. Most of the top fifty are in all the lists. There might be 200 that can legitimately vie for the next fifty. All lists indicate are preferences of the constituted panelists at the moment. Tastes change. I have played 75 of the 100 and feel there are 20 or so that I think could be replaced by other courses.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Hot take: #2 stinks compared to new #4. At least #4 has elevation change and water hazards, and I don’t find the greens on #2 all that interesting. No (material) wind in PH. #2 greens, hard and fast, yes. I would play 4v2 probably 7/3 or maybe 6/4 but it’s not overweighted materially to #2 based on Majors. I get bummed out thinking the courses listed below #2 are worse than it and I’ll like them less. Give me OTC all week.

There are few top courses that have been as vanilla to me at #2. I struggle to remember all the homes & struggle to understand all the hype.

[Dan Boerger]

Michael H. - I played Teugega a few weeks ago. Just a tremendous layout and some very interesting holes on the back 9. Perhaps not a top 100 course, but I'll be back there.

[Jim Hoak]

Wolf Point is the only/the best course in Texas?  Sad, but maybe true.  One of the best golf states in the country--and too few great courses.

[Jimmy Muratt]

Wolf Point is the only/the best course in Texas?  Sad, but maybe true.  One of the best golf states in the country--and too few great courses.

Jim, I feel your pain...I'm in Virginia and the lack of good/great courses here is very sad.   

[Roman Schwarz]

Don't see it on GM website but saw a copy of the list. As with the world list contains some of the big risers and some surprises.
Big risers

• 23 Somerset Hills up 15 spots
• 36 Sleepy Hollow up 60 spots!!!!!
• 43 Myopia Hunt up 20 spots
• 63 The Creek up 28 spots
• 65 Moraine up 24 spots
• 70 Gozzer Ranch up 25 spots

Surprises

• Ohoopee debuting at 32!  Haven't been but pretty high debut for sure.
• Valley Club at Montecito dropping 7 spots to 55? ?
• Sand Valley dropping 39 spots to 91. People change their minds or what?
• Love Lawsonia Links debuts at 87
• Bel Air moves up to 68 which is 12 spots. Finally getting enough ratings to move post reno.
• Calusa Pines drops to 98, I think this course is underrated big time per these rankings, same for Plainfield at 57
• Both Streamsongs drop 30 plus spots.
• Omissions: Olympia Fields, Beverly in future years, Dismal River (red), Austin GC (all my opinion obviously)

Quite a few new additions which signifies the shift in the panel makeup.

I had my popcorn ready to hear others chime in about Sand Valley.  I played it the year it opened and got a chance to play Mammoth this past year, but to this point haven't talked to anybody else that has played either one.  I love both CC and DMK, but neither struck me as Top 100.  I thoroughly enjoyed SV, but have it as the lowest public CC I've played that isn't on dead flat land.  I wouldn't have put Mammoth in the same class as Streamsong Black and marked it as a 6 on the Doak scale.  For something with Mammoth in the name, I expected something a little bolder on and around the greens (except for the back left of 13, which seems unpinnable).  Also, with the number of multiple elevation "split" fairways, rarely did I find either option to yield a significantly better approach.  It's a fun course, but Top 100 only allows 100 guests to the party.


I don't mean it to be a takedown of the resort.  They have a lot going for them, including the youth tees.  It'll be the first place I take my son on a golf trip when he's old enough.  If we're talking about the creme of US courses, though, I'd take Wekopa and Streamsong Black over SV and Mammoth hands down.  I'm concerned that the names attached slightly inflate the rating.

[JC Jones]

Wolf Point is the only/the best course in Texas?  Sad, but maybe true.  One of the best golf states in the country--and too few great courses.

Jim, I feel your pain...I'm in Virginia and the lack of good/great courses here is very sad.

You have many good and great courses in Virginia.  Just remember, a 6 in Virginia is an 8 if its private and in NJ, PA, NY, RI or MA.

[Jason Thurman]

I would certainly remove Prairie Club Dunes and replace with Dismal River Red.   Dismal Red is vastly underrated and I'm not sure why.

Is it?


I like Dismal Red. I especially love the intimacy of the routing in such a vast environment, and that it has such a completely different feel from the White course. But I'd split 10 plays 9-1 with the Dunes at Prairie Club, which I continue to rate as one of the most varied, elastic, and compelling courses I've ever played. Between the two courses, I think Prairie Club has:


* The four best par 3s. I'm still waiting for one person to make a coherent argument for why the Dunes course, as a set, should not be considered to have one of the best sets of par 3s in the US. They move in different (wind) directions, play to a variety of lengths, and they're all holes where consideration of ground contours can lead to aiming well away from the flag to get close to any given pin, whether off the tee or when attempting a recovery. When I think "best fourth hole I've played," PC(D)'s 4th always comes to mind right away.


* The 3 best par 4s. Dismal Red is full of very good two shotters, but I don't quite like any of them as much as 2, 8, or 13 at PC(D).


* A superior set of par 5s - 10 and 12 in particular at PC(D) are excellent holes. The par 5s at Dismal Red are fun, but not the stars of the show in my mind.


I love Dismal Red too. It's an outstanding routing and a delightfully sporty course. I do have it above quite a few courses on this list, in a comparable tier to Mammoth Dunes, Whistling Straits, Moraine, Kingsley, and Cherry Hills. I'd actually probably rate it above all of those courses, personally, but I can't be too frustrated about it not being included because ultimately I think those courses are all pretty comparable in quality, none of them are no-brainer top 100 courses in my mind, and some of them will inevitably get squeezed out of a list like this.


I was recalling the days back before Ran and Tom Doak had played Harvester Club with a friend over the weekend, remembering that when it was announced that Harvester would be closing as a public course, the immediate GCA reaction was that it was just another average CCFAD that didn't make it. I was astonished at the time as a guy who had always loved the course. It's inconceivable to think about guys around here calling it "average" now that Doak has called it the best course in Iowa, and Ran has written a glowing review of it under Courses By Country. But before the tastemakers played it, nobody had a "correct" opinion to parrot.


Well, Tom Doak still hasn't been to Prairie Club and Ran hasn't profiled it. In the absence of visits from them, I've been waiting 10 years for someone to give me a coherent explanation of WHY it doesn't belong on any given top 100 list, or WHY it's better or worse than anything else in the Sandhills region. And still, the best I get is "Dismal Red is underrated" or "LOL." In fairness, the turf conditions at Prairie Club could be firmer and faster, more regularly. Then again, so could the turf conditions at Dismal in my experience.

[Joe Hellrung]

Call me the contrarian of the unwashed masses, but I think Pinehurst #4 is great.  It is fun, fair, interesting, gorgeous, and a lot of other adjectives. 

[JC Jones]

But before the tastemakers played it, nobody had a "correct" opinion to parrot.

A closed feedback loop, if you will.




FYI, per Doak's Instagram he spent some time at Prairie Club this week.

[Jason Thurman]

To Roman's point:


I played Sand Valley and Mammoth Dunes for the first time last month. I already can't wait to go back to the resort - they're really good. But I certainly think there's room to ask questions about their Top 100 validity.


I found Mammoth big, bold, and spectacular. It's fun as hell. I'm just not convinced that it's quite as discerning as a great course should be. On my play, it felt like the fine line between a good result and a poor result for an average shot might be just a little too skewed toward good results. It might be a little short on teeth. Then again, I really loved playing it!


Does Sand Valley have the great holes to truly cement its standing on this list? I love the ethos, I love the setting, and I think it's a good, strong golf course. Well worth an 8+ hour drive for me every couple years. But do you play one of the twenty best golf holes in Wisconsin when you play it? I'm asking genuinely - I think I need another play or two to really firm up my own thoughts on it.


Looking at what's not on the list, I certainly wouldn't rate either course above Pete Dye Golf Club, and it's a toss-up with places like Erin Hills, Kirtland, Canterbury, Crooked Stick, Beverly, Colorado GC, and Blackwolf Run. But it's not, like, crazy to me that Sand Valley's courses would belong to the exclusion of those.

[Tom_Doak]

I would certainly remove Prairie Club Dunes and replace with Dismal River Red.   Dismal Red is vastly underrated and I'm not sure why.

Is it?


I like Dismal Red. I especially love the intimacy of the routing in such a vast environment, and that it has such a completely different feel from the White course. But I'd split 10 plays 9-1 with the Dunes at Prairie Club, which I continue to rate as one of the most varied, elastic, and compelling courses I've ever played. Between the two courses, I think Prairie Club has:


* The four best par 3s. I'm still waiting for one person to make a coherent argument for why the Dunes course, as a set, should not be considered to have one of the best sets of par 3s in the US. They move in different (wind) directions, play to a variety of lengths, and they're all holes where consideration of ground contours can lead to aiming well away from the flag to get close to any given pin, whether off the tee or when attempting a recovery. When I think "best fourth hole I've played," PC(D)'s 4th always comes to mind right away.


* The 3 best par 4s. Dismal Red is full of very good two shotters, but I don't quite like any of them as much as 2, 8, or 13 at PC(D).


* A superior set of par 5s - 10 and 12 in particular at PC(D) are excellent holes. The par 5s at Dismal Red are fun, but not the stars of the show in my mind.


I love Dismal Red too. It's an outstanding routing and a delightfully sporty course. I do have it above quite a few courses on this list, in a comparable tier to Mammoth Dunes, Whistling Straits, Moraine, Kingsley, and Cherry Hills. I'd actually probably rate it above all of those courses, personally, but I can't be too frustrated about it not being included because ultimately I think those courses are all pretty comparable in quality, none of them are no-brainer top 100 courses in my mind, and some of them will inevitably get squeezed out of a list like this.


I was recalling the days back before Ran and Tom Doak had played Harvester Club with a friend over the weekend, remembering that when it was announced that Harvester would be closing as a public course, the immediate GCA reaction was that it was just another average CCFAD that didn't make it. I was astonished at the time as a guy who had always loved the course. It's inconceivable to think about guys around here calling it "average" now that Doak has called it the best course in Iowa, and Ran has written a glowing review of it under Courses By Country. But before the tastemakers played it, nobody had a "correct" opinion to parrot.


Well, Tom Doak still hasn't been to Prairie Club and Ran hasn't profiled it. In the absence of visits from them, I've been waiting 10 years for someone to give me a coherent explanation of WHY it doesn't belong on any given top 100 list, or WHY it's better or worse than anything else in the Sandhills region. And still, the best I get is "Dismal Red is underrated" or "LOL." In fairness, the turf conditions at Prairie Club could be firmer and faster, more regularly. Then again, so could the turf conditions at Dismal in my experience.

By happenstance, I stopped in at The Prairie Club this past week on my way west.  And I'm sorry that you are using Dismal as the benchmark here, because onviously anything I say about that comparison is biased, so I will refrain from comparing them.


But, some of your opinions on the course presented above are ridiculous.  The par-3's ??  Two of them have greens that would get me flamed (or put in a straitjacket) if I built them.


Every course in the sand hills is interesting, and the Dunes has a handful of terrific holes, but the total package is over the top for my tastes.  I actually preferred the Pines course, though the dramatic 18th hole there didn't work great.

[MCirba]

It's a pretty good list, although like everyone I have some changes I'd make. 
 

I've played 20 of the first 25, 13 more through 50, 14 more through 75, and 12 more to 100, for a total of 59.   

[Tom_Doak]

I'm thinking back to the first time I visited Somerset Hills, in 1980.  If you'd told me it would one day be ranked 23rd in America I'd have laughed.


To be clear:  I love the course, but these lists are starting to get silly.

Tom, why do you think SHCC isn't worthy of its spot?  1980 isn't 2020.  Find me another course that should replace it...   I think you may be the first person to every tell me that SHCC isn't deserving of top 25 consideration.

Michael:


I'm not sure if you are aware that my associate Brian Slawnik has done all the work at Somerset Hills, with occasional assistance from me.  And as I posted already, I love the place.  I would rather play there than almost half of the courses in the 22 spots ahead of it.


But it's basically the same course that it was in 1980 when it wasn't in any top 100 list and practically nobody was arguing for it, and the main difference on the ground is just the money they spend to get the greens fast and the golf course pretty.  And that's why I question the whole exercise.  We haven't done anything there that should be making the golf course climb the list so dramatically, either it should have been up there all along, or someone is getting carried away.


There are lots of fine courses in the rankings and quite a few that aren't - I guess there are more than 100 worth talking about[size=78%].  By my own arbitrary rating of 8 on the Doak Scale, Somerset Hills would be tied for 20th place with about fifty other courses.  Putting it 23rd with some of the others ranked 70th or 90th is what seems silly to me.  I guess other people think they have a keener sense of judgment than I do.[/size]

I thought it would go over better if I cited an example of how restorations become overrated where I was the architect, instead of Gil Hanse, but I guess not.

[MCirba]

I haven't played it since the Doak version, but I was a bit surprised to see The Sheep Ranch coming in at only #80.

For those who have played the C&C version, is something missing (besides bunkers) on such a dramatic site?

[Mark Pritchett]

Here are the seventeen courses that fell off the list along with their previous rank.


51.  Medinah
54.  Spyglass
55.  Yale
70.  East Lake
74.  Erin Hills
75.  Interlachen
77.  Congressional
79.  Scioto
81.  Fox Chapel
86.  Cricket-Wissahickon
87.  Torrey Pines
88.  Boston Golf
92.  Colonial
93.  Hazeltine
98.  Chambers Bay
99.  Mountain Lake
100.  Blackwolf Run

[JC Jones]

But it's basically the same course that it was in 1980 when it wasn't in any top 100 list and practically nobody was arguing for it, and the main difference on the ground is just the money they spend to get the greens fast and the golf course pretty.  And that's why I question the whole exercise.  We haven't done anything there that should be making the golf course climb the list so dramatically, either it should have been up there all along, or someone is getting carried away.

How would you differentiate Somerset Hills from, say, Crystal Downs, Fishers Island and NGLA in this regard?

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