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Tim Martin

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2021, 07:42:27 PM »
I give him a ton of credit for doing this.

And I admit, I'm intrigued to see how well he can do against the best in the world.

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/32072613/world-no-6-golfer-bryson-dechambeau-accepts-invitation-compete-professional-long-driver-championship


The article states that DeChambeau sought out Kyle Berkshire’s help in the off season. Berkshire is currently the number one ranked Long Driver competitor which potentially adds another storyline. Finally I wonder where BDC’s management team/sponsors line up as to whether they think he should compete from a public relations standpoint?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2021, 07:49:11 PM by Tim Martin »

Tim Leahy

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2021, 08:37:04 PM »
It should be interesting what kind of a driver he and Cobra come up with for the competition. Does Cobra sponsor any other long drive competitors? Hope it's not like the Homerun Derby and screws up his regular tour swing.
 ???
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

jeffwarne

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2021, 08:52:33 PM »
Hope it's not like the Homerun Derby and screws up his regular tour swing.
 ???


Pretty sure that ship sailed awhile ago....


EDIT:
Well, that didn't age too well.... ;) ;D
On a related note, I had coffee with a member yesterday, who took his 8 year old son son to an indoor facility in NYC on Sunday, the day Hurricane Henri hit the area. Bryson, another team member and his new caddie Brian Zeigler (a former Jim McLean assistant) were there working on tweaking Bryson's putter and putting stroke.
He said Bryson was quite friendly with them both, though mostly deeply focused on what he was doing.
They were impressed with Bryson taking time out to meet them talk with them and exchange pleasantries with them again when they left.They also said his team/Brian was particularly friendly as they were understandably a bit less focused than Bryson.


Whatever they did with his putting seemed to work ;)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2021, 07:35:59 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Steve Lang

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2021, 09:48:46 AM »
 8)  I'm hoping he can hit 6 balls in the grid in 2:30, that's 2 minutes, 30 seconds, not hours & minutes


Looking through the PLDA Sport Manual, i note they have to use USGA Conforming Clubs and also have a competition ball rule... what a concept!


2.1.1 Golf Ball. Hitters are required to hit the golf ball provided by the PLDA, or the ball designated at the time of the sanctioned event, to require all Hitters to hit the same ball during the event. Hitter is required to ensure that PLDA issued golf balls are visible at all times.
and under 2.2.5 Local Qualifying - Stage 1 Format,  there's a term "Brysony"



1-6 Attempts343 Yards - Brysony (Qualified)
7-11 Attempts341 Yards - Tony (Qualified)
336 Yards - Rory (NOT Qualified)
335 Yards - Justin (NOT Qualified)


wonder if anyone will be yelling Brooksy at him??

PLDA has come a long way since Art Sellinger was destroying it 326 yds!
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 10:08:38 AM by Steve Lang »
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Kalen Braley

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2022, 08:20:56 PM »
2 years and change later...it seems Bryson may be re-thinking a few things:

DeChambeau is looking atypically svelte these days, and has apparently lost 20 pounds, which he confirmed in a recent appearance on the golf podcast Five Clubs with host Emma Carpenter.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/is-bryson-dechambeau-now-anti-bulking/ar-AA14nkLk?cvid=4b8c316bd6b14a1cb82643a36d7ef67d

A.G._Crockett

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2022, 08:14:49 AM »
2 years and change later...it seems Bryson may be re-thinking a few things:

DeChambeau is looking atypically svelte these days, and has apparently lost 20 pounds, which he confirmed in a recent appearance on the golf podcast Five Clubs with host Emma Carpenter.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/is-bryson-dechambeau-now-anti-bulking/ar-AA14nkLk?cvid=4b8c316bd6b14a1cb82643a36d7ef67d


Let’s see:


25 lb weight gain in a couple of months.  Struggled with injuries (hamate bone and hip labrum, primarily), and self-reports suffering “huge mood swings”.  Followed by losing 20 lbs in ONE MONTH.


Not suspicious at all.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Mike Sweeney

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2022, 05:43:25 AM »


Let’s see:


25 lb weight gain in a couple of months.  Struggled with injuries (hamate bone and hip labrum, primarily), and self-reports suffering “huge mood swings”.  Followed by losing 20 lbs in ONE MONTH.


Not suspicious at all.


I lost 25 pounds in roughly two months by learning how to eat properly. I carry 208-212 now. My gain was middle age mental laziness, so it was harder to pull off.

Bryson is a professional athlete, knows his body better than most athletes, put his pounds on purpose for his golf career, and won a US Open at Winged Foot. As the article states, he was consuming 3500 calories a day, so 20 pounds in a month seems reasonable, to me.

I don't think my wife would like Bryson at Thanksgiving dinner, but I do not think that Bryson "juiced".

I do think that Tiger "juiced".



"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

A.G._Crockett

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2022, 08:17:47 AM »


Let’s see:


25 lb weight gain in a couple of months.  Struggled with injuries (hamate bone and hip labrum, primarily), and self-reports suffering “huge mood swings”.  Followed by losing 20 lbs in ONE MONTH.


Not suspicious at all.


I lost 25 pounds in roughly two months by learning how to eat properly. I carry 208-212 now. My gain was middle age mental laziness, so it was harder to pull off.

Bryson is a professional athlete, knows his body better than most athletes, put his pounds on purpose for his golf career, and won a US Open at Winged Foot. As the article states, he was consuming 3500 calories a day, so 20 pounds in a month seems reasonable, to me.

I don't think my wife would like Bryson at Thanksgiving dinner, but I do not think that Bryson "juiced".

I do think that Tiger "juiced".


The rapid weight loss is the least of it.  The speed at which BCD gained muscle would be the envy of any NFL lineman, and the self-reported mood swings are a red flag.


I’ll leave your opinion on BCD as opposed to Woods alone. 
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Erik J. Barzeski

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2022, 08:20:21 AM »
I don't think my wife would like Bryson at Thanksgiving dinner, but I do not think that Bryson "juiced".

I do think that Tiger "juiced".
Tiger took years to change his body less than Bryson changed in six months, yet the latter is the one who didn't "juice"?
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Mike Sweeney

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2022, 08:31:08 AM »
I don't think my wife would like Bryson at Thanksgiving dinner, but I do not think that Bryson "juiced".

I do think that Tiger "juiced".
Tiger took years to change his body less than Bryson changed in six months, yet the latter is the one who didn't "juice"?


Yes:


The indictment did not identify any clients, but prosecutors said they included golfers, professional baseball and football players and others.
https://www.espn.com/espn/news/story?id=6743448



"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Erik J. Barzeski

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #60 on: November 23, 2022, 08:33:32 AM »
The indictment did not identify any clients, but prosecutors said they included golfers, professional baseball and football players and others.
https://www.espn.com/espn/news/story?id=6743448
And yet the book by investigative journalists turned up NOTHING.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Mike Sweeney

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2022, 08:46:43 AM »
The indictment did not identify any clients, but prosecutors said they included golfers, professional baseball and football players and others.
https://www.espn.com/espn/news/story?id=6743448
And yet the book by investigative journalists turned up NOTHING.


People who get paid to write a book that sells lots of copies...


It's just my opinion. I did what Bryson did in 2019 -https://www.instagram.com/p/_unQuHmXWw/

I also played college basketball and was exposed to many college football players when none of us knew what the repercussions of steroids were. Mike Ruth was the most famous and his story is well documented. I like Tiger, but yea, I think he juiced.


If I remember correctly, there were no rules against it in golf, so I do not think it tarnishes his accomplishments at all. He was just ahead of everyone, and the PGA caught up. Again, this is from memory, so I could be wrong on the this and have to go out now.


Happy Thanksgiving.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 08:48:19 AM by Mike Sweeney »
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Erik J. Barzeski

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2022, 09:10:52 AM »
People who get paid to write a book that sells lots of copies...
I think they'd have sold a lot more books had they been able to find any evidence to support Tiger "juicing."

I also played college basketball and was exposed to many college football players when none of us knew what the repercussions of steroids were. Mike Ruth was the most famous and his story is well documented. I like Tiger, but yea, I think he juiced.
Based on only the fact that he used Dr. Galea for PRP when recovering from surgery? Guilt by association is enough for you, I guess, despite almost no other hard evidence. Okey dokey.

Have a good Thanksgiving for yourself, too.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Jim_Coleman

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #63 on: November 23, 2022, 10:02:45 AM »
   Why else use Dr. Galea? There are thousands of doctors to choose from. And his reputation is world wide and proven. Use him and you’ll be suspected. To call that guilt by association is bending way over backwards. It’s a fair inference, though not dispositive .

Erik J. Barzeski

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #64 on: November 23, 2022, 10:43:48 AM »
Why else use Dr. Galea?
IIRC, because he was one of the experts/leaders in PRP at a time when it was pretty new.

To call that guilt by association is bending way over backwards.
Hardly. It's the literal definition, because again, there's virtually no other actual evidence that Tiger "juiced."

So it's almost purely guilt by association. His body didn't change rapidly. He worked his ass off in the gym (to what many have said was an unhealthy level). He wasn't anything like a "linebacker" build if you saw him in person.

Again, Armen Keteyian researched and wrote the book… and found nothing. He'd have really made a name for himself and the book had he found something with this. But he didn't.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #65 on: November 23, 2022, 11:54:01 AM »


Let’s see:


25 lb weight gain in a couple of months.  Struggled with injuries (hamate bone and hip labrum, primarily), and self-reports suffering “huge mood swings”.  Followed by losing 20 lbs in ONE MONTH.


Not suspicious at all.


I lost 25 pounds in roughly two months by learning how to eat properly. I carry 208-212 now. My gain was middle age mental laziness, so it was harder to pull off.

Bryson is a professional athlete, knows his body better than most athletes, put his pounds on purpose for his golf career, and won a US Open at Winged Foot. As the article states, he was consuming 3500 calories a day, so 20 pounds in a month seems reasonable, to me.

I don't think my wife would like Bryson at Thanksgiving dinner, but I do not think that Bryson "juiced".

I do think that Tiger "juiced".


Mike, it really is bad form to accuse someone of being "juiced" on a public forum, unless you have some kind of proof.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Kalen Braley

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #66 on: November 23, 2022, 12:59:05 PM »
Its unfortunate Tigers name has been dragged into this.

He was in the spotlight almost non-stop during his transformation and was easily observed to be very gradual over several years.

Bryson on the other hand goes away for a few months and returns as an absolute beef-cake. As AG says, its beyond obvious.

Pete_Pittock

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #67 on: November 23, 2022, 05:33:47 PM »
Slanted article. https://www.espn.com/espn/news/story?id=6743448
The article mentions Tiger Woods, but no other golfers. Then it goes on to say golfers were included. What are we being led to believe?

Mike Sweeney

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #68 on: November 23, 2022, 05:46:32 PM »
Slanted article. https://www.espn.com/espn/news/story?id=6743448
The article mentions Tiger Woods, but no other golfers. Then it goes on to say golfers were included. What are we being led to believe?


At the time of the article below, Tiger Woods was at his peak in 2005. THERE WERE NO RULES AGAINT PED's in golf. Tiger was a world class athlete taking advantage of training techniques that were allowed. That is what top athletes always do, and Tiger broke no rules:


https://www.espn.com/golf/news/story?id=2239115


"No professional tour has specific language in its rules prohibiting performance-enhancing substances; nor does the USGA. "

The rest of this is Bryson hating who I believe also worked within the now very complicated rules - https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2018/2017-2018_Anti_Doping_Manual.PDF
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Erik J. Barzeski

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #69 on: November 24, 2022, 10:18:22 AM »
Mike, the fact of the matter is: you have absolutely no actual evidence. You don't even have people saying "oh, yeah, I know Tiger did stuff."

And the article YOU cited says things like this:

Quote
After six months of research, Golf World has not turned up a documented case of steroid abuse on golf's major tours. Still, the rampant use of steroids in other sports and the insistence of medical experts that steroids can enhance performance lead some to believe steroids inevitably will encroach on pro golf, probably first among young amateurs and developmental pros.

Golf World has not turned up A documented case… experts believe it WILL encroach…

Also:

Quote
…says Dr. Bill Mallon, a former tour player who is now an orthopedic surgeon. Mallon is also an Olympic historian and was a consultant for the U.S. Golf Association on the inclusion of golf in the 2012 Olympics -- which, had it occurred, would have forced the sport to adopt an anti-doping policy that met IOC standards. "Tiger Woods is probably the best-conditioned male I see out there, and he doesn't look like he's on steroids. He just looks like he's in great shape.

And the article Pete cited "lists" Tiger Woods, and says that Galea had "clients" who were golfers. Well, Tiger was a client, but that doesn't mean he was shot up with steroids by Galea. I attended physical therapy for a shoulder injury a few years ago, and the FBI recently raided the offices and they were in big trouble for fraud. Doesn't mean they were fraudulent with me, or that I participated in the fraud (they were using lesser ranked people to perform procedures but billing medical insurance companies at the higher rate as if a higher level therapist did the work).

Its unfortunate Tigers name has been dragged into this.He was in the spotlight almost non-stop during his transformation and was easily observed to be very gradual over several years.Bryson on the other hand goes away for a few months and returns as an absolute beef-cake. As AG says, its beyond obvious.
+1

I think there are other reasons why one might think Tiger "juiced" while Bryson didn't.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Rob Marshall

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #70 on: November 24, 2022, 09:02:07 PM »
“I think there are other reasons why one might think Tiger "juiced" while Bryson didn't.”


I’ll bite? What are the other reasons?

I don’t think either juiced. How could Bryson beat the system currently in place?




« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 09:03:59 PM by Rob Marshall »
"I used to get pissed at blowing leads until I quit having them" John Kavanaugh

Jim_Coleman

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #71 on: November 25, 2022, 07:22:09 AM »
   To say there is NO evidence that Tiger used is myopic. Galea and growth is evidence, but not convincing to some. In legal terms, it’s a jury question, not a directed verdict. Bamberger’s book presents the evidence and leaves the question open. That’s fair.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 07:24:55 AM by Jim_Coleman »

A.G._Crockett

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #72 on: November 25, 2022, 08:33:15 AM »
   To say there is NO evidence that Tiger used is myopic. Galea and growth is evidence, but not convincing to some. In legal terms, it’s a jury question, not a directed verdict. Bamberger’s book presents the evidence and leaves the question open. That’s fair.


Growth?  A skinny kid grew up to look like a taller, fitter version of both his parents.  Woods is listed as 6-1/185.


The day I graduated from HS, I was 6-2 and weighed 145.  I put on 30 lbs over the next 10 years while I was playing college tennis and playing competitive tennis beyond college, and by age 30 looked just like my father, minus the gut.  This morning, at age 70, guess what?  I am 6-1, 180. 


Which is, of course, evidence of absolutely NOTHING. It doesn’t speak to whether or not I used steroids in my 20’s, nor how hard I did or didn’t work in the weight room.


If there was a directed verdict, it would be the judge throwing the case out.  There isn’t any evidence. Doesn’t mean Woods didn’t juice, but to call his “growth” over a decade or so evidence is pretty cynical stuff.


And, btw, what do you do with Bill Mallon’s comment?
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Niall C

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #73 on: November 25, 2022, 09:04:31 AM »
2 years and change later...it seems Bryson may be re-thinking a few things:

DeChambeau is looking atypically svelte these days, and has apparently lost 20 pounds, which he confirmed in a recent appearance on the golf podcast Five Clubs with host Emma Carpenter.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/is-bryson-dechambeau-now-anti-bulking/ar-AA14nkLk?cvid=4b8c316bd6b14a1cb82643a36d7ef67d


Let’s see:


25 lb weight gain in a couple of months.  Struggled with injuries (hamate bone and hip labrum, primarily), and self-reports suffering “huge mood swings”.  Followed by losing 20 lbs in ONE MONTH.


Not suspicious at all.


Apparently it took Robert De Niro 4 months to put on 70 lbs (145 lbs to 215 lbs) for the role of Jake LaMotta in Raging Bull. He also had health issues with the weight gain. All of which doesn't prove anything either in terms of BDC's weight gain in the same way your own weight gain proves nothing about Tiger's. So why exactly are you inferring that BDC has been taking banned substances ?


Niall

Mike Sweeney

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Re: An open letter to Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #74 on: November 25, 2022, 11:47:38 AM »

Apparently it took Robert De Niro 4 months to put on 70 lbs (145 lbs to 215 lbs) for the role of Jake LaMotta in Raging Bull. He also had health issues with the weight gain. All of which doesn't prove anything either in terms of BDC's weight gain in the same way your own weight gain proves nothing about Tiger's. So why exactly are you inferring that BDC has been taking banned substances ?


Niall


The Army, Navy, and Air Force football seniors have to do this every Spring to graduate:

Gaston weighed 295 pounds to start the season while Tamburello was 290 pounds to start the year. The two players had to get down to 226 pounds and 211 pounds, respectively, to reach the weight on the chart. Neither was able to do that, but both were able to pass by dropping 50-plus pounds from their weights at the beginning of the season and by getting to 12 percent body fat, each in under three months.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/two-navy-offensive-linemen-lose-50-plus-pounds-just-to-graduate/

If they test for even Marijuana, they are out, so I am thinking Bryson can easily do this with his obvious intelligence.

Once again, I don't believe Tiger or Bryson broke any rules. Bryson just bugs people :)
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

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