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Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
The recently published Golf Mag listing excluded 9-hole courses that are part of Clubs/facilities that have additional courses.

If a separate listing for 9-hole courses that are part of Clubs/facilities with additional courses were  compiled which 9-holers do GCA posters consider should be on it?

Atb

Cross ref to the top-50 separate venue thread - https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68788.0.html

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
The problem with this exercise is that it becomes arbitrary to decide what counts as a 9-hole course vs. what doesn't.


For instance, Otter Creek is one of the best days of golf available within a 90 minute drive of my home. An all-day rate of under $100, and 27 holes of golf spread over three nines, two of which I rate very highly.


The North 9 and West 9 comprise the original 18 holes, with the East 9 added at a later date. But the facility doesn't really count the East 9 as its own course, and the North and West as an 18 hole course. It treats all three nines equally.


The North 9 would be one of the best 9 hole courses in the US as a standalone nine. As would the West. I think of those nines as their own 18 hole course, but that's only because I understand the basic history of the property. The club no longer treats those nines as an 18 hole course, but as two of the three nines that you can play in any 18 hole round.


The East, for what it's worth, just doesn't rev my engine and wouldn't make my list of any top 9 hole courses.
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

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Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
The problem with this exercise is that it becomes arbitrary to decide what counts as a 9-hole course vs. what doesn't.
Fair enough.
Letís make it stand-alone 9-holes for this exercise.
Atb






Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
I don't understand Jason's problem.


If the nine are rotated into the main course on a regular basis, a la Ridgewood in NJ, then that's a 27-hole course.  If the nine is nearly always reserved for nine hole play, then it should be recognized as such.


By far my favorite is the Valliere course at Morfontaine.


Brian Finn

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'd be curious to hear more about the 9 hole course at Southern Hills.  In my only visit, I only played the main course, and did not even realize they had another 9 until I was on site.  Can anyone share their thoughts on the course?  Would it be among the top 9 holers in the US?
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Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
While I wouldn't put it at the top of any lists, the Mount Pleasant Course at Mt. Washington is a blast. Play 18 on the main course, grab some lunch, then do laps around the 9-hole course in an amazing setting.

Michael Wolf

  • Karma: +0/-0
St George's Hill green 9 would be my tops for this category.


Sleepy Hollow's would belong on any US "3rd nine" list.


BTW - Shouldn't the Pine Valley short course be on this list instead of the par 3 list? There's at least one p4 on it.


I've never played Southern Hill's 3rd nine, I only know it was designed by Crenshaw - and it's greens are (or were) cut by robot mowers!


Michael

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Anyone play the 9 holer at Maidstone?

Adam Lawrence

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St George's Hill green 9 would be my tops for this category.


Sleepy Hollow's would belong on any US "3rd nine" list.


BTW - Shouldn't the Pine Valley short course be on this list instead of the par 3 list? There's at least one p4 on it.


I've never played Southern Hill's 3rd nine, I only know it was designed by Crenshaw - and it's greens are (or were) cut by robot mowers!


Michael


There are a number of very good holes on the green nine at SGH. There are a couple of stinkers too. But the issue is that it was not designed as a nine hole course -- Colt built a second 18 at the club in 20s. It is clear to me that it was an afterthought -- if he had expected to be called back to build eighteen more he'd never have routed the main course the way he did -- the Green (which was originally the New or Ladies' course) starts in a very awkward location. When the course was brought back into play after the war, it was cut to nine, and this was formalised when Donald Steel renovated it 20-odd years ago. Much of what has been lost was in the area delimited by the back nine of the main course -- I think four holes were in there. Sadly for anyone thinking about whether it could be put back, the club has recently built a large reservoir in that area.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Time to name a few GB&I and ask about a few others -
The Channal at Burnham
St Olaf at Cruden Bay
The Bann at Castlerock
How about ..
Yellow at Portmarnock?
Wee at Blairgowrie?
Would like to add the Kilmore at Carne but canít really as it now seems to be incorporated within the Hackett holes.
Whatís the 9-holer at Machrihanish like?
Connemara?
Enniscrone Scurmore-9
The Rosapenna 9 on the hill?
Nairn? Fraserburgh? Peterhead?
North Foreland?
Atb





Michael Wolf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Which ones at SGH would you consider the stinkers Adam? I thought there were mostly good holes and a few really good ones. I don't recall any bad ones.


« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 05:04:02 PM by Michael Wolf »

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Which ones at SGH would you consider the stinkers Adam? I thought there were mostly good holes and a few really good ones. I don't recall any bad ones.



The par five fourth is a horror, the worst ground on the entire property and a very dull hole. I don't like the seventh much either -- it was formed out of two original Colt holes and I don't think it works very well, although the terrain is excellent.


The best hole on the course, imo, is the par four fifth, and the short four sixth is also very good indeed.


The ninth is a bit silly, because the terrain is so wild, but I forgive it because it's a lot of fun.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Michael Wolf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Including all 27 holes (but no more), I think I'd go:


St George's Hill
Portmarnock
Sleepy Hollow
TCC Brookline
Ridgewood


None of you have invited me to play Morfontaine. Yet.


Michael

Michael Wolf

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'll concede on the (7th) 26th. But the 4th (23rd) is just fine - maybe take down the trees on the right past the cross bunker. Everything else is really good. Maybe not world class compared to the first 18 holes, but very very good.


As a stand alone, the Green would belong in the top 50 9 holers IMO.


Michael

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
a very tricky category with all the 27 hole complexes(which usually screams loss of identity or 1975-especially when all 3 nines return to the clubhouse)


Morfontaine
Bann nine at Castlerock
St Olaf
Maidstone
Carne? (i haven't played the new 9)
Portmaromack-I think many 27 hole complexes fall into this-what's the main 18?

Sleepy Hollow?(has it gotten better?-Spent a lot of time there in the early 90's--I only remember 6,7,8 as being really good holes(leftover from CB's original)-5 par 3's)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 08:05:43 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
From what I've heard/seen/read, it seems like that side 9 at Sand Hollow in Utah would fit in here.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Brian Finn

  • Karma: +0/-0
From what I've heard/seen/read, it seems like that side 9 at Sand Hollow in Utah would fit in here.
Great call.  I had forgotten about this one.  It is really fun.  Quite different than the main 18 there (on a flat property with far less eye candy), the links nine actually played firm and fast on my visit. 
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Richard Fisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Can I just reverse TD's thread, and ask which is the least distinguished 9-hole or similar accompaniment to a distinguished principal 18? In this category I would, I fear, have to nominate Nairn (although in fairness it's at least fifteen years since I last sampled the Newton course, parts of which were akin to flags in a field), but doubtless there are other contenders: sometimes 'practice holes' or 'nursery holes' have been souped up into a course proper. The old 'New' 9-hole Course at the Gogs (now replaced by the Wandlebury 18) was rather better than that, but in places not very much - although it did possess arguably the best hole on the entire property in the short sixth (still mothballed).
At the other end of the scale, warm support for the Channel Course at B&B, and some of the most challenging drives in England.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Portmarnock Yellow is a cracking 9 holes, only inferior to the main course as its greens are a little simpler / tie in less well and there is a slightly weak finish on 8 & 9.


But the holes themselves are excellent and 4 & 6 are two of the best par-4ís on the property.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Which ones at SGH would you consider the stinkers Adam? I thought there were mostly good holes and a few really good ones. I don't recall any bad ones.



The par five fourth is a horror, the worst ground on the entire property and a very dull hole. I don't like the seventh much either -- it was formed out of two original Colt holes and I don't think it works very well, although the terrain is excellent.

The best hole on the course, imo, is the par four fifth, and the short four sixth is also very good indeed.

The ninth is a bit silly, because the terrain is so wild, but I forgive it because it's a lot of fun.
Isn't the Green used as part of the main course sometimes in winter etc?

Anyone played Rye's Jubilee 9 recently? It's pretty good and I was led to believe the club was going to continue improving it.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Clyne

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Which ones at SGH would you consider the stinkers Adam? I thought there were mostly good holes and a few really good ones. I don't recall any bad ones.



The par five fourth is a horror, the worst ground on the entire property and a very dull hole. I don't like the seventh much either -- it was formed out of two original Colt holes and I don't think it works very well, although the terrain is excellent.

The best hole on the course, imo, is the par four fifth, and the short four sixth is also very good indeed.

The ninth is a bit silly, because the terrain is so wild, but I forgive it because it's a lot of fun.
Isn't the Green used as part of the main course sometimes in winter etc?




Yeah, they like to give the main course a bit of a rest in January and/or February
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
David

Someone else mentioned the nine holer at Machrihanish as worth playing which is interesting as I'd always assumed it was bit like Richard described the nine holes at Nairn.

One other to mention even though I haven't played it either is the Hillhouse course at Barassie. It was part of the main course until they developed another nine holes in the 90's that replaced them. I've played the 18 hole course and from what I recall of the old holes on that course are well worth playing so I imagine Hillhouse will be as well. Mileage wise it comes in at just over 5,500 yards for the double round (if that counts for anything).

Niall

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
David

Someone else mentioned the nine holer at Machrihanish as worth playing which is interesting as I'd always assumed it was bit like Richard described the nine holes at Nairn.



Haven't played the Pans. But in the same area I have been told by several good judges that the course at Carradale is different gravy.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thereís the Headland-9 at Trevose as well, Murcar has another 9-holes too I believe and thereís one at County Sligo thatís not bad and could be made quite a bit better.
Surprising in some ways how few there are and how few seem to attract praise.
Atb

Joey Chase

  • Karma: +0/-0
I would second Tomís position on the Valliere course.  They have some of the most fun greens anywhere on the planet.  Another one that is an absolute blast and quite whimsical is the Bad Little Nine at Scottsdale National.  I found it to be a fantastic addition to Jackson/Kahnís Other Course.  If itís not the coolest facility in AZ, I would love to see its competition.

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