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David_Madison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« on: August 11, 2020, 01:45:42 PM »
Anyone know of a course where both nines end with par-3's? Never ran into one or even heard of a course having the 9th and 18th be par-3's until I played one yesterday -- Cape Fear National near Wilmington, NC. Any others out there?

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2020, 01:52:01 PM »
David,
I may be wrong but I suspect that the architect didn't plan it that way.   I played there last year and it felt like perhaps a change of ownership from original developer may have relocated the clubhouse. 
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Ben Hollerbach

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2020, 02:10:05 PM »
Aiken Golf Club, Chattanooga, Midvale, Paramount, Oak Hills (San Antonio)

David_Madison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2020, 02:10:28 PM »
David,
I may be wrong but I suspect that the architect didn't plan it that way.   I played there last year and it felt like perhaps a change of ownership from original developer may have relocated the clubhouse. 



Thanks - just seemed really weird. In a strange way it might not be a terrible thing, kinda' like a short 19th hole to settle bets. But here you get to do it at the end of each nine.

Ben Hollerbach

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2020, 02:20:06 PM »
David,
I may be wrong but I suspect that the architect didn't plan it that way.   I played there last year and it felt like perhaps a change of ownership from original developer may have relocated the clubhouse.


Looking at old aerials of the course's construction, It appears the clubhouse has always been in that location.

Eric LeFante

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2020, 02:24:17 PM »
Paramount CC in New City, NY

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2020, 03:42:41 PM »
Glens Falls Country Club

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2020, 03:50:05 PM »
Interesting question.  Not to hijack, but polarizing moreso than 9th, would be the 1st and 18th?  Never seen that.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2020, 04:08:33 PM »
Fox Hollow Golf Club in Branchburg/Whitehouse NJ. 
Used to play there a bunch 20 years ago when my cousin was member.


IIRC both were drop-shottish par 3's over a pond.

David_Madison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2020, 05:21:54 PM »
Thanks all -- I thought that I may have found a total one off but it looks like there are some pretty decent courses out there with this configuration. There must be something unusual about the siting of the clubhouse that makes having the two nines come back to it with par-3's the only possible thing to do as I can't imagine that it's really a desirable ending to both nines. If it was architecturally desirable wouldn't we see more of this?

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2020, 05:55:42 PM »
Donald Ross course in Rochester, Brooklea Country Club. Also in Rochester a RTJ Midvale CC
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.Ē Jimmy Buffett

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2020, 06:44:28 PM »
Maketewah CC (Donald Ross) in Cincinnati, OH.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:
https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike_Clayton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2020, 07:02:40 PM »
The Lakes in Sydney - a long-time Australian Open venue.

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2020, 07:09:53 PM »
Alisal Ranch both are and both return to the clubhouse.

JohnVDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2020, 12:53:53 PM »
Iím shocked nobody mentioned it already, but since I played it today, Iíll add Brora to the list..

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2020, 12:59:27 PM »
Quail Creek in Robinson, IL. It used to host a annual PGA event and is mentioned twice in Stuart Bendelow's book as two separate courses.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2020, 01:14:37 PM »
Maketewah CC (Donald Ross) in Cincinnati, OH.


Maketewah definitely fits the bill, although it's not totally clear to me whether the concluding par 3s were implemented by Ross or part of the original Bendelow routing.


To David's last post questioning whether it's a desirable way to conclude both 9s vs. just forced by the occasional awkward property:


1. Maketewah is located on a pretty odd parcel of land, really. Pretty small on acreage, and pretty severe in spots, and especially right around the clubhouse, which sits atop a little hill surrounded by pretty steep dropoffs. The par 3s help navigate some of the severe terrain around the clubhouse, and I think it would've been tough to build bigger holes that lead back home. It's hard for me to envision how a par 4/5 leading to the clubhouse site would work well - the corridors for 1 and 10 both make more sense moving away from the clubhouse than they would if you reversed them. The only other way I can figure that a bigger hole leading to the clubhouse could fit with the terrain would be if 4 played more or less straight to a green maybe near the southwest portion of the little practice area out front.


2. At least in the case of the 18th, I really like the par 3 that leads right up to the clubhouse as a finishing hole. It's a short par 3 that plays in full view of an often-busy patio. The idea of playing that hole in an event with a gallery of onlookers watching everything and ready to cheer or heckle feels like a lot of fun. I get that it's a little unconventional and unusual, but I don't think there's anything inherently awkward or bad about it.
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2020, 02:27:21 PM »
Singapore Island Club, 'Island' Course.
atb

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2020, 03:04:11 PM »
Thanks all -- I thought that I may have found a total one off but it looks like there are some pretty decent courses out there with this configuration. There must be something unusual about the siting of the clubhouse that makes having the two nines come back to it with par-3's the only possible thing to do as I can't imagine that it's really a desirable ending to both nines. If it was architecturally desirable wouldn't we see more of this?


David,


  As a principal in two courses---Paramount and Fox Hollow--that fit your criteria, I might be best suited to opine on the reasoning behind it. It really is a functioning of smaller properties with the clubhouses situated between two distinctly different land mass on the property's topography. Bigger properties allow for architects to find the room to route more par 4's and 5's, and smaller ones are constrained and thus forced to use par 3's to return to the clubhouse...especially when used to protect more interesting 1st holes.


 Thanks for bringing up the subject. I might have to become a human trivia question answer!!
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2020, 08:19:45 PM »
Cardinal Hills GC Bedford, KY




Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2020, 08:38:38 PM »
Thanks all -- I thought that I may have found a total one off but it looks like there are some pretty decent courses out there with this configuration. There must be something unusual about the siting of the clubhouse that makes having the two nines come back to it with par-3's the only possible thing to do as I can't imagine that it's really a desirable ending to both nines. If it was architecturally desirable wouldn't we see more of this?


David,


  As a principal in two courses---Paramount and Fox Hollow--that fit your criteria, I might be best suited to opine on the reasoning behind it. It really is a functioning of smaller properties with the clubhouses situated between two distinctly different land mass on the property's topography. Bigger properties allow for architects to find the room to route more par 4's and 5's, and smaller ones are constrained and thus forced to use par 3's to return to the clubhouse...especially when used to protect more interesting 1st holes.


 Thanks for bringing up the subject. I might have to become a human trivia question answer!!


Paramount has a good set of par three holes with 18 a particular favorite. Really an under the radar gem and a course you will want to play more than once.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 08:40:09 PM by Tim Martin »

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2020, 09:15:29 PM »
Cardinal Hills GC Bedford, KY


Respect. I've only driven past it.
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

David_Madison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2020, 10:11:27 PM »
Thanks all -- I thought that I may have found a total one off but it looks like there are some pretty decent courses out there with this configuration. There must be something unusual about the siting of the clubhouse that makes having the two nines come back to it with par-3's the only possible thing to do as I can't imagine that it's really a desirable ending to both nines. If it was architecturally desirable wouldn't we see more of this?


David,


  As a principal in two courses---Paramount and Fox Hollow--that fit your criteria, I might be best suited to opine on the reasoning behind it. It really is a functioning of smaller properties with the clubhouses situated between two distinctly different land mass on the property's topography. Bigger properties allow for architects to find the room to route more par 4's and 5's, and smaller ones are constrained and thus forced to use par 3's to return to the clubhouse...especially when used to protect more interesting 1st holes.


 Thanks for bringing up the subject. I might have to become a human trivia question answer!!


Paramount has a good set of par three holes with 18 a particular favorite. Really an under the radar gem and a course you will want to play more than once.


Steve - Your explanation makes total sense. But now I'm thinking about perhaps the desirability of having at least one par three completing a nine, especially at a private club with a clubhouse with porches or decks so that fellow members can watch and participate as their fellow members. Seems that #18 would be the better choice from this perspective. I remember playing at my club and our 9th hole was a par-3 over water to a green that sits right below the clubhouse. The nines were reversed one day and I slam dunked the shot. Would have been so much cooler if a bunch of members were watching, a walk-off slam dunk ace but nobody was around.


Beyond the question of the property dictating the choice, I'm now seeing lots more reasons why it's beneficial to complete a nine (or maybe better yet the round) with a par-3. I used to feel it odd or not desirable, but maybe my thinking is changing on that.

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2020, 01:44:05 AM »
Royal St. David's (Wales)

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Both 9th and 18th holes Par-3's
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2020, 02:44:44 AM »
Saunton West and Sunny Heath.

Ciao
« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 02:51:52 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2023: Clyne

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