[Jeff Schley]

https://vimeo.com/408601329

Desert golf being manufactured and unnatural is the cost of having green grass in that environment. I certainly haven't played a course more manicured, which I know isn't the agreed upon definition here for conditioning. The Quarry at La Quinta is far from what many on here would hold up as ideal conditions as the cost is just not feasible for all courses, but I respect the club for they have a philosophy on how they want their course to look and play and try and do it the best they can. Wall to wall flawless green property with a beautiful place in the desert. Big kudos to Mark Smith, their superintendent who has been there since they opened in the mid 90's.


The video was very interesting to me for how much work they put in to make it what it is. Of interest was pulling a cable or rope across the fairways after cutting them, and a proprietary divot fill mix. Also for those who have played there it is the only place I know of (if there are others please post) where the caddies have a divot bag where they pick up all pieces of the divot. No divots are allowed to remain on the course, caddies pick all of them up right after it happens.

[Tom_Doak]

. . . and a proprietary divot fill mix. Also for those who have played there it is the only place I know of (if there are others please post) where the caddies have a divot bag where they pick up all pieces of the divot. No divots are allowed to remain on the course, caddies pick all of them up right after it happens.

Old Tom Morris set this standard when he came back to St Andrews in 1878.  It's probably the main reason The Old Course is so highly regarded.


Do I need to add the /s ?

[Drew Harvie]

https://vimeo.com/408601329

Desert golf being manufactured and unnatural is the cost of having green grass in that environment. I certainly haven't played a course more manicured, which I know isn't the agreed upon definition here for conditioning. The Quarry at La Quinta is far from what many on here would hold up as ideal conditions as the cost is just not feasible for all courses, but I respect the club for they have a philosophy on how they want their course to look and play and try and do it the best they can. Wall to wall flawless green property with a beautiful place in the desert. Big kudos to Mark Smith, their superintendent who has been there since they opened in the mid 90's.


The video was very interesting to me for how much work they put in to make it what it is. Of interest was pulling a cable or rope across the fairways after cutting them, and a proprietary divot fill mix. Also for those who have played there it is the only place I know of (if there are others please post) where the caddies have a divot bag where they pick up all pieces of the divot. No divots are allowed to remain on the course, caddies pick all of them up right after it happens.

Or you pick them up and put them in your cart since I imagine a lot of people cart. It's an okay golf course, but one I wouldn't have on my top 100

[Joel_Stewart]

If any 18 hole course had a superintendent, two assistant superintendents and a staff of 50 its going to be pristine.  Add in an unlimited budget and you have the Quarry.  For those who haven't been there, its a golf only club, with a small clubhouse by Palm Springs standards.  Homes are situated on the outside of the fairways and are not obtrusive.


The video doesn't interview Mark Smith the superintendent.  He's known for being tough to deal with, he knows what he's doing and doesn't need any advice. Personally I think he's over done it with the tree planting, often obstructing views with trees for no reason. 

[Don Mahaffey]

Mark Smith is a legend in the desert, or at least he was last time I had connections to the area 15 years ago. He's been at The Quarry from the beginning and it has always been maintained at an extremely high level.  It is in no way the norm and should never be held up as an example of normal maintenance. But its what his membership has always wanted and he has always delivered. I am not bothered by it at all as we will always have courses all across the conditioning spectrum.


Its only when lower resource courses try to keep up that the problems start. If a club wants conditioning like the Quarry, then they need to make the investment like the Quarry. And it helps a lot to hire a great Supt early on and keep him around for 30 years.

[Matt_Cohn]

Just for discussion: what would the green fees have to be, if this were a public course, to support this level of conditioning?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Just for discussion: what would the green fees have to be, if this were a public course, to support this level of conditioning?

Think Shadow Creek with a much busier tee sheet.


SC is also overseeded, but has bent tees, apps AND greens, hand work everywhere including raking walk paths. Same designer, bunker styles. Many similarities.

[Lou_Duran]

Tony,


I am aware of a course out West with a maintenance budget in 2018 of $3 Million for a 5 +/- month season.  Care to guess Quarry's?

[Tommy Williamsen]

When I played there the asst said that if I find a weed I would be offered a membership. No weeds. The level of conditioning is way over the top, but it sure was splendid to play. I played Stone Eagle the next day and found conditioning there to be very similar.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Tony,


I am aware of a course out West with a maintenance budget in 2018 of $3 Million for a 5 +/- month season.  Care to guess Quarry's?

Too many variables to make a fair guess. If they have an equipment lease, is it included? Do they pay for water and if they do, is it brackish or fresh? Those 2 line items could be $500k to $1m alone. Overseed rates-Some of these high end clubs that overseed & have bent can push $3m pretty easily & seed is getting expensive. I know of a few in that area that push the $3m number.


Heck, FL has many, many courses over $2m and in many cases, water is abundant, most courses do not seed, but it’s year round, high end maintenance OR if they’re closed in the summer, project season.


It will be interesting what budgets will look like when minimum wage becomes $15/hr. The domino effect will hurt courses more than the starting wage.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

https://vimeo.com/408601329

Desert golf being manufactured and unnatural is the cost of having green grass in that environment. I certainly haven't played a course more manicured, which I know isn't the agreed upon definition here for conditioning. The Quarry at La Quinta is far from what many on here would hold up as ideal conditions as the cost is just not feasible for all courses, but I respect the club for they have a philosophy on how they want their course to look and play and try and do it the best they can. Wall to wall flawless green property with a beautiful place in the desert. Big kudos to Mark Smith, their superintendent who has been there since they opened in the mid 90's.


The video was very interesting to me for how much work they put in to make it what it is. Of interest was pulling a cable or rope across the fairways after cutting them, and a proprietary divot fill mix. Also for those who have played there it is the only place I know of (if there are others please post) where the caddies have a divot bag where they pick up all pieces of the divot. No divots are allowed to remain on the course, caddies pick all of them up right after it happens.

A lot of the operations highlighted are commonplace on much lower budget courses (e.g. mowing greens daily). Particularly over the top to me was the daily tee path raking and the weekly bunker and cartpath edging.


The biggest advantage of having a big labor force and a big budget is hand watering, especially in the desert. Seems kind of ridiculous as irrigation system costs run well into the millions. But to get a course green like that, while also maintaining a firm surface requires hose work pretty much wall to wall.


Lower budget courses face the following options: Soft and pretty or firm and ugly.

[AChao]

It's a pretty well maintained place for sure -- best I've ever played.  I once played there where there was a sandstorm all night.  I teed-off at 8 am and saw the course exactly the same way I saw it the other times I played it.  I know that their maintenance budget is large, but I don't think the club has had an unlimited budget for maintenance.  There have been some pretty large fluctuations in initiation fees through the years also.

[Jeff Schley]

If any 18 hole course had a superintendent, two assistant superintendents and a staff of 50 its going to be pristine.

Large crew and manpower for sure. To be fair they do have a 10 hole short course and an 18 hole putting course as well.

[Thomas Dai]

Out of interest what is the supply/demand of labour situation for the lower level jobs on the big crew at such a course? Also is there some form of minimum or graded wage structure for such lower level workers?
Atb

[DLane]

I am biased for sure, as I spent 15 years of my life at The Q.  I have been fortunate enough to play almost everywhere and there is no golf course in the World that would be better conditioned than a golf course Mark Smith is in charge of.  He is the standard for not only presentation and playability, but as a leader and in practicality.  His crew would follow him through fire and he has more loyalty from those that work for him than anyone else I have ever met in golf.  He has no care of perception or hearsay, he shows up every day and puts out a product that is the ultimate.  Throw in world class short and putting courses and I can honestly say he will be sorely missed in retirement.  I hope those after him give half of the effort and care he did, as that will set the tone for years to come. 

[Lou_Duran]

Great testimonial!  I hope that Mark is mentoring his assistants and that one can walk right into his shoes at the proper time.  I would bet that he has very low turnover in comparison to his peers.  Training seems to be a nicety for some clubs running on tight budgets; the attitude appearing to be that there is not enough time and, besides, you'd just be training them for the benefit of the next employer who will pay them a quarter an hour more (begs the question: how much is retention of a good worker worth to the club?).   

[JMEvensky]

Great testimonial!  I hope that Mark is mentoring his assistants and that one can walk right into his shoes at the proper time.  I would bet that he has very low turnover in comparison to his peers.  Training seems to be a nicety for some clubs running on tight budgets; the attitude appearing to be that there is not enough time and, besides, you'd just be training them for the benefit of the next employer who will pay them a quarter an hour more (begs the question: how much is retention of a good worker worth to the club?).   

Probably should be its own separate thread, but to your parenthetical, a lot IMO. I'd guess a well trained "veteran" staff pays for itself in a few years with improved conditions and a lot less wasted effort.


Maybe a few superintendents will chime in.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Great testimonial!  I hope that Mark is mentoring his assistants and that one can walk right into his shoes at the proper time.  I would bet that he has very low turnover in comparison to his peers.  Training seems to be a nicety for some clubs running on tight budgets; the attitude appearing to be that there is not enough time and, besides, you'd just be training them for the benefit of the next employer who will pay them a quarter an hour more (begs the question: how much is retention of a good worker worth to the club?).   

Interesting point. Most assts are looking for a head super job. If the head is at a good club he might be reluctant to leave, so any asst would be on the lookout. Yet, a well trained asst can only be beneficial to a club.

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