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Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« on: December 24, 2019, 12:38:42 PM »
http://www.renaissancegolf.com/cart/


The first volume (covering his first eighteen courses) is available for pre-order. I know Tom has talked about the book a few times, but I didn't see a topic specifically for it. If my search missed one, please merge.


Looking forward to reading it. Plus, ideally, I have a deadline to catch up on and finish a bunch of other books now so I can read this one when it arrives in late March or April, hopefully.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I ignore Rob and Tim.

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2019, 12:58:23 PM »
I got to read through the first few chapters early on in the process. I really enjoyed High Point in particular. There's also some great letters in other chapters that are pretty interesting. It's a very ambitious project and I will be curious to see where he went thematically as he went through the projects.


I'm not sure if Pacific Dunes is in there, but his initial book specifically on that routing, done over a decade ago, was really, really interesting to go through. I mailed it back to Tom and have regretted that ever since. That chapter will be fantastic for anyone who knows the property well enough to see the alternative directions he looked at.


The only surprise was the price tag. Although, after going through the costs of publishing last year, I think the number of golf books available in the future will be very small. It's why a few projects like the update to The Architects of Golf are not likely to come.



from Stephen Goodwin's interview on this site
-

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2019, 01:17:11 PM »
Have ordered mine ....
 Christmas and Birthday Day present.
Hope it will stimulate interest in Riverfront, 4 miles from home.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 01:19:14 PM by Carl Rogers »
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2019, 03:02:00 PM »
Gentlemen,

I have ordered Tom Doakís book ďGetting to EighteenĒ.
A bit of crowd-funding by my better half, Tricia, and daughters has defrayed the cost to my good self!

The price may appear a tad expensive but I am lucky to be in the carefree situation of being 70 years old, unencumbered by uneducated offspring and not being a spendthrift (until just now!!).

I think that the cost will be worth it for myself as I reckon the insights offered up will be interesting and, in my case, educational. I appreciate having information in an easily accessible form as in a volume. I think this will become an important book well into the future and that if accessible from libraries will be a go-to read.

Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Michael Wolf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2019, 03:19:36 PM »
What I'd really like is a ticket to a Fantasy GCA Boot Camp where someone who knows what they are doing spends a week teaching me how routing, construction, drainage, irrigation etc all works on an actual site.

But in the meantime, sure I'll order the book. I've found everything I've purchased from Renaissance Publishing to have outstanding production values. Agree with the content or not, the books themselves are well made. Certainly at the top of class of what is unfortunately a field with rather sparse new offerings.

Michael

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2019, 04:11:34 PM »
As I trend up the mortality tables will need to wait until March and just order the first volume. Got an early lesson at Pacific Dunes and it is still paying off.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2019, 05:39:30 PM »
What I'd really like is a ticket to a Fantasy GCA Boot Camp where someone who knows what they are doing spends a week teaching me how routing, construction, drainage, irrigation etc all works on an actual site.

But in the meantime, sure I'll order the book. I've found everything I've purchased from Renaissance Publishing to have outstanding production values. Agree with the content or not, the books themselves are well made. Certainly at the top of class of what is unfortunately a field with rather sparse new offerings.
I'd seriously consider such a thing, too.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I ignore Rob and Tim.

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2019, 09:01:53 PM »
I got to read through the first few chapters early on in the process. I really enjoyed High Point in particular. There's also some great letters in other chapters that are pretty interesting. It's a very ambitious project and I will be curious to see where he went thematically as he went through the projects.


I'm not sure if Pacific Dunes is in there, but his initial book specifically on that routing, done over a decade ago, was really, really interesting to go through. I mailed it back to Tom and have regretted that ever since. That chapter will be fantastic for anyone who knows the property well enough to see the alternative directions he looked at.


The only surprise was the price tag. Although, after going through the costs of publishing last year, I think the number of golf books available in the future will be very small. It's why a few projects like the update to The Architects of Golf are not likely to come.



from Stephen Goodwin's interview on this site
Ian,


This is the book I have been waiting for. Much as I like Tomís previous work, I have a sense this will be special, a book that is missing in golf architecture literature.
Tim Weiman

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2019, 09:51:06 PM »
What I'd really like is a ticket to a Fantasy GCA Boot Camp where someone who knows what they are doing spends a week teaching me how routing, construction, drainage, irrigation etc all works on an actual site.

But in the meantime, sure I'll order the book. I've found everything I've purchased from Renaissance Publishing to have outstanding production values. Agree with the content or not, the books themselves are well made. Certainly at the top of class of what is unfortunately a field with rather sparse new offerings.
I'd seriously consider such a thing, too.


The funny thing is back in the 90's I actually took a 2 or 3 day seminar in architecture-hosted actually by the PGA (somewhat suprisingly)
In fact I'm pretty sure That's where I got my "Golf Course Architecture" textbook by Michael Hurdzan.


What an interesting seminar(and hopefully faculty) that would be 25 years later
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2019, 12:25:07 AM »
I did not intend to advertise the book here.


The title is a double entendre, as it covers my first 18 courses - actually, 19, since I have never counted The Sheep Ranch as an official course.  That will be one of the more interesting chapters, since Bill Coore was kind enough to provide his routing, and I could analyze the things he found that Don Placek and I had not found.


So, Pacific Dunes is in there, and it will be covered in depth.  [How in depth?  Even Mike Keiser never saw my first routing, which I will include.]


St. Andrews Beach was my 18th [/19th] course, so that's the last one included, right after Cape Kidnappers and Barnbougle.  There are also a few projects I didn't get to buiid, like the 2nd course at Cape Kidnappers, and Erin Hills.  Ballyneal, Sebonack, and Tara Iti [among others] will have to wait for a future book.


As Tim W. says, the point of the book is to fill a gap missing in the literature of golf architecture . . . an architect explaining why he put the golf holes where he did.


It IS expensive.  I know there is a limited market for it, so it's a limited edition, which should make it worth more.  It will be very expensive to print, as we are printing it big enough to read the topo maps.  I hired my former associate Sara Mess to help edit it.  I will be sure to offer at-cost discounts to all of my former associates, and other architects who want a copy.


Somehow, in spite of the cost, I've gotten 200+ orders for it in the past three days.

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2019, 12:32:24 AM »
Tom,


"...in spite of the cost..."  I wouldn't be worrying about that.  I suspect the content will justify it.


Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2019, 01:00:50 AM »
Tom,


Very excited about this book having long thought it was really the most important subject missing in golf architecture literature.


I also have a sense of deja vu because now more than 20 years ago I had a conversation with Brian Lewis about what was missing in this field. Brian listened intently when I said ďwe need a good book about Alister Mackenzie.....not him personally, but his work, his coursesĒ.


Little did I know, you and Brian were already working on it!
Tim Weiman

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2019, 04:58:13 AM »
I havenít seen too many of Tomís courses outside of photos.


So what Iím really interested in here is seeing the topo maps and any descriptions of why he put a hole where he did. Especially be interested to see any individual uses of landforms.


Itís not an easy thing to document every either / or decision on a golf course and Iím sure Tom will pass over hundreds of these decisions that are only of so much interest to casual observers. But it does make me think that I should note down everything I can remember on my own few projects, for my own posterity if nothing else.


Canít wait to see this book, anyway.


Incidentally, I recently received a similar book (likely on a different scale) from Pat Ruddy, running through his lifeís work.


Merry Christmas...

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2019, 10:14:33 AM »
I will be sure to offer at-cost discounts to all of my former associates, GCA posters and other architects who want a copy.
Thanks for being in the spirit Tom and Merry Christmas to you indeed! ;D
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2019, 10:23:10 AM »
Hello Tom,
Help!


When I went to order and clicked "place order",
it said "a duplicate order has been submitted"



To be clear, I was trying to order one book.
Having not gotten a confirmation email yet I'm not sure if I ordered one (my intention), two or zero.


Thanks
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2019, 10:24:47 AM »
TD,


Why no love for Black Forest at Wilderness Valley, always attributed to you and not the other amigos too?  Your name has been on the sign along M-38 for many moons... are you going to have it removed?


article_f0d75ad2-8504-5fc4-9c73-405e969b55d2.html




ps Really like the new Memorial Park...
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2019, 11:10:27 AM »
When I went to order and clicked "place order",
it said "a duplicate order has been submitted"
If you don't get an order confirmation it didn't go through. Order again.

Same happened to me and I called my CC company to make sure.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I ignore Rob and Tim.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2019, 11:15:14 AM »
Hello Tom,
Help!


When I went to order and clicked "place order",
it said "a duplicate order has been submitted"



To be clear, I was trying to order one book.
Having not gotten a confirmation email yet I'm not sure if I ordered one (my intention), two or zero.


Thanks


The software is designed to block accidental double orders.


If you haven't gotten a confirmation email, you probably didn't order a book at all.  I will look up your order the first of next week and let you know if it went through.

Dave Maberry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2019, 03:52:08 PM »
Hello Tom,
Help!


When I went to order and clicked "place order",
it said "a duplicate order has been submitted"



To be clear, I was trying to order one book.
Having not gotten a confirmation email yet I'm not sure if I ordered one (my intention), two or zero.


Thanks



Jeff,


I had similar problem when I tried to place order. I had placed book in cart and some time passed (out to dinner with wife) before I checked out. I checked with Brian Lewis and there was no order. I reordered with no problem followed by immediate email confirmation.


Dave .

Dave
« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 03:55:30 PM by Dave Maberry »

Dave Maberry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2019, 03:57:48 PM »
What I'd really like is a ticket to a Fantasy GCA Boot Camp where someone who knows what they are doing spends a week teaching me how routing, construction, drainage, irrigation etc all works on an actual site.

But in the meantime, sure I'll order the book. I've found everything I've purchased from Renaissance Publishing to have outstanding production values. Agree with the content or not, the books themselves are well made. Certainly at the top of class of what is unfortunately a field with rather sparse new offerings.
I'd seriously consider such a thing, too.


The funny thing is back in the 90's I actually took a 2 or 3 day seminar in architecture-hosted actually by the PGA (somewhat suprisingly)
In fact I'm pretty sure That's where I got my "Golf Course Architecture" textbook by Michael Hurdzan.


What an interesting seminar(and hopefully faculty) that would be 25 years later


I too like the Boot Camp idea and would like to attend!

Michael Wolf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2019, 06:13:18 PM »
Tom,


Was there a Christmas letter this year?


Michael

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2019, 08:22:15 PM »
Tom,

Was there a Christmas letter this year?



There is, but it will be more like a year in review, because I haven't had time to get it out to people.   :D


Merry Christmas!

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2019, 03:38:57 PM »
What I'd really like is a ticket to a Fantasy GCA Boot Camp where someone who knows what they are doing spends a week teaching me how routing, construction, drainage, irrigation etc all works on an actual site.

But in the meantime, sure I'll order the book. I've found everything I've purchased from Renaissance Publishing to have outstanding production values. Agree with the content or not, the books themselves are well made. Certainly at the top of class of what is unfortunately a field with rather sparse new offerings.

Michael
Michael,


You must be really hard core if you want to get into construction, drainage, irrigation, etc. For most of us, just the routing would be a big deal. I remember Tom showing me around some of the property for the second course at Stonewall and him telling me that 3rd hole was inspired by something from Royal Melbourne. Thatís the stuff thatís cool, IMO.
Tim Weiman

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2019, 03:55:28 PM »
Michael W. & Tim W. -

I was fortunate enough to spend an afternoon with Mark Parsinen touring Castle Stuart while it was under construction and roughly 75% finished. It was a remarkable 4 hours.

If you ever have a chance to experience something like that, do not pass it up.

DT

Michael Wolf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Getting to Eighteen" by Tom Doak
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2019, 04:28:55 PM »
Tim,


I've got a sneaky feeling there's a difference between drawing pictures of cool golf holes on graph paper, and actually bringing them to life. I'd like to see for myself just how big that gap is.


note: I had a cub scout den mother take us on a tour of the Kahns meat packing plant in Cincinnati when I was about ten years old. To say it left an impression would be an understatement.




Michael




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