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Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Bunker sand vs. dunes sand
« on: July 24, 2019, 06:36:47 PM »
The thread on bunker sand brings to my mind a subject about which I have often wondered.
My experience is that bunker sand is usually very different from the sand in dunes or waste areas.  Bunker sand is normally lighter, fluffier.  I usually think I need to hit about twice as hard to move the ball from dunes sand vs. bunker sand.
I have thought that that is the case since dunes sand has dirt mixed in with it, but I'm not sure I'm right.
Is this difference between bunker sand and dunes sand always the case?  Should it be?  Why is it different?  Is it wise to think about the different composition of bunker sand vs. dunes sand in designing a course?  Would it be better for the sand to be consistent between the two?
In the thread on bunker sand, it talks about some courses taking bunker sand off of their own course.  Would that mean that the bunkers and dunes play the same?  Good?

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker sand vs. dunes sand
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2019, 08:56:43 PM »
Jim, the course to which I was referring does not just dig up the sand and put it in a bunker. They sift it and perform other tasks to get the texture desired.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker sand vs. dunes sand
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2019, 04:33:10 AM »
They sift it and perform other tasks to get the texture desired.
Manicured ‘hazards’. What a bizarre game.
Atb

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker sand vs. dunes sand
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2019, 11:30:51 AM »
They sift it and perform other tasks to get the texture desired.
Manicured ‘hazards’. What a bizarre game.
Atb
They don't want them too hazardous.  Average golfers, who already have trouble in sand, might never get out. 

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker sand vs. dunes sand
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2019, 11:41:04 AM »
Personally, my primary concern is nothing to do with consistency or bad lies. It is all to do with keeping the sand in the bunker when the wind gets hold.


The west of Ireland breeze can cause awful havoc on bunkers, removing sand very quickly.

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Bunker sand vs. dunes sand
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2019, 12:22:49 PM »
So, Ally, does bunker stand stay put better than dunes sand in the wind?  Why?

John Emerson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker sand vs. dunes sand
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2019, 01:01:16 PM »
Jim,
some of that “depends”. Many times the dunes have vegitation.  This vegitation helps hold sand in place much better than loose sand. 
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker sand vs. dunes sand
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2019, 02:36:44 PM »
Complex subject sand dune systems.
Seashore and dune sand comes in many colours, shapes and sizes etc. It doesn’t originate within dunes, it moves there. It can and does move again, constantly shifting, even if man attempts to intervene. Dunes come and go, they change size and shape and the material they’re made up of can and does originate a long way away and is both water borne and wind blow.
Atb

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker sand vs. dunes sand
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2019, 05:58:33 PM »
I would say that close to 95% of all the sand that goes in bunkers I work on is manufactured and not naturally found. Bank sand has become scarce ... but most of this has come from elevated expectations about drainage, firmness and the ability to remain in place. Almost all sand used in Southern Ontario is a manufactured product, crushed for size, run through sieves and eventually washed. The particle shape is sharp and angular as opposed to the round shape more common in beach sand. It drains better, stays firmer, resist washouts and keeps the ball on the surface. There's a reason why its popular.


The technology is far superior, whether that's good for the game or demeans the value of a bunker depends on your own personal point of view.
Change is good.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker sand vs. dunes sand
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2019, 07:09:08 PM »
Natural dunes sand: Las Palomas (Sonora, MX)...in fact, the whole course is built on it, 20 meters deep.

Crushed lava: NE Arizona at Concho Valley (NLE)

I prefer whatever is locally available and only get involved in "perfect" or "ideal" sand when it becomes the focus of the club. I listen and provide my input. Usually, the club wins. Which is OK.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

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